Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: What we know - Time Travel in Heroes
Tonight's episodes gave us a lot of clues on how time travel will operate in Heroes. The following list are tid-bits that I gleaned from episode 9.
1. The writers follow the single timeline theory.
2. A time traveler can make some changes to the timeline, but it remains internally consistent to prevent a paradox (Hiro can't save Charlie, for instance, because it would cause a paradox and prevent him from traveling back to save her).
3. Ando is somehow aware of the timeline changes.
If you have anything else to add, please feel free to do so.
It would seem that Peter Petrelli is also aware of the changes, like Ando.
I say this because nobody in the diner seemed to notice that Hiro had disappeared. Since they found nothing out of the ordinary and also didn't recognize Ando as "Hiro's friend" even though they knew Hiro pretty well, it raises questions about how those people perceived Ando - did he enter with Hiro, or did he come alone?
But Peter calls Ando to talk about Hiro - making him separate from the people in the diner, who only knew that Hiro left town a few weeks before.
Or maybe that's not the same thing. I don't know...
There is a kink in the single timeline theory. That kink is future Ando when Hiro first goes to future New York and finds out about the coming bomb or whatever and calls Ando in the future to tell him that he travelled in time. He finds out he has been gone in that time (but Ando has not), comes back in time and takes Ando with him.
In this new divergent timeline, he will also change the future that he previously witnessed and was a part of. The key to the timeline is that the timeline follows the person who can manipulate time (as in all matters of time travel) and Hiro's choice to leave Ando and to come back to Ando left this timeline intact. His only other choice was to lose Ando and restart back to before they met the waitress (taking more jumps) to make it right. Then we get into questions of whether he can meet himself and let himself know to jump in the past and so on (as past Hiro would have to "get out of the way" for future Hiro if he wanted to do that).[/i]
I think Masdog is on the right track, with this train of thought, HOWEVER... if he is correct, then new york will have to be destroyed as well. It would appear the writers for the show are going to, and for simplicities sake, have to pick and choose from different theories, and let the real science go out the window. I suppose we could explain the fact that ando and peter are aware of changes in the timeline by saying it is some unknown subconscious aspect of hiro's power, to allow a certain few to be aware of what is changing, but not others...otherwise the people of the diner would have recognized hiro when he came into the resturant. If he was with Charlie for 5 months and had only been gone 3 weeks, well, he would have had a bigger welcome. So from their perspective, only ando came in at all... this could get very complicated very fast...
There is a kink in the single timeline theory. That kink is future Ando when Hiro first goes to future New York and finds out about the coming bomb or whatever and calls Ando in the future to tell him that he travelled in time. He finds out he has been gone in that time (but Ando has not), comes back in time and takes Ando with him.
A little thread necromancy here...
I just got finished watching the entire series in the last three days. All episodes, one after another. My brain is now running at high speed...unlike that time when I watched three entire seasons of Sailor Moon in three days. Oy! The Headaches!
Anyway...there is no kink there. Hiro traveled into the future. Because no one knew he was leaving for a trip or traveling anywhere, the timeline evolved as if he had disappeared. When he returned, the future changed because he was only gone two days.
The idea here is that the future isn't set in stone. Hiro, through his powers, can travel to the future and return to the past. When he is in the future, things change, and people who know him treat him as if he has been gone or missing for that entire time.
Quote:
In this new divergent timeline, he will also change the future that he previously witnessed and was a part of. The key to the timeline is that the timeline follows the person who can manipulate time (as in all matters of time travel) and Hiro's choice to leave Ando and to come back to Ando left this timeline intact. His only other choice was to lose Ando and restart back to before they met the waitress (taking more jumps) to make it right. Then we get into questions of whether he can meet himself and let himself know to jump in the past and so on (as past Hiro would have to "get out of the way" for future Hiro if he wanted to do that).[/i]
Actually...no, it wouldn't. Well, in theory, one could speculate that the entire timeline was left intact, but that is mainly possible by the many-worlds theory (which seems to have been discarded by the authors now).
There are a few reasons as to why that timeline would no longer exist. When the detective calls Ando in Japan, Ando states that he hadn't seen Hiro in five weeks. That future has now been destroyed as Ando is in America with Hiro, and there are only about two weeks left before NYC is possibly destroyed by whatever calamity befalls it.
As for meeting himself...there is a reason why Future Hiro chose Peter Petrelli (besides the obvious power mimicry). I speculate that Future Hiro couldn't meet himself in the past - it would cause a rift, of if they tried to touch, could undo the universe (ok...maybe not that bad, but "same matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time"...blah blah blah...you can't shake your own future or past self's hand).
I think Masdog is on the right track, with this train of thought, HOWEVER... if he is correct, then new york will have to be destroyed as well. It would appear the writers for the show are going to, and for simplicities sake, have to pick and choose from different theories, and let the real science go out the window. I suppose we could explain the fact that ando and peter are aware of changes in the timeline by saying it is some unknown subconscious aspect of hiro's power, to allow a certain few to be aware of what is changing, but not others...otherwise the people of the diner would have recognized hiro when he came into the resturant. If he was with Charlie for 5 months and had only been gone 3 weeks, well, he would have had a bigger welcome. So from their perspective, only ando came in at all... this could get very complicated very fast...
I don't think that is quite the case, LHF. New York won't have to be destroyed - between Hiro's knowledge and Isaac's paintings, it can be prevented if the heroes know more or figure it out. That's the beauty of free-will - the future isn't set in stone, and knowledge of what is to come means that it can be prevented.
As for the time travel bit..I'm not sure why Ando would be aware of timeline changes. He hasn't traveled through time yet. I can give a probable explanation for Peter, though...he's got some immunity from minor changes because he absorbed some of Future Hiro's power.
i just realised what you guys said, that hiro should've been greeted... but once he travelled to the past, photo taken and appeared from nowhere on the board
---> according to this, not only future but past is not determined (if someone - who can travel back - travels back and makes a change)
- my problem: after the pic appearde (or changed, doesn't matter) and that waitress remembers him
then why doesn't she realise that it was him with Ando? like "oh how stupid i am, i almost didn't recognise him" or something
and a
OFF
masdog wrote:
...I watched three entire seasons of Sailor Moon in three days. Oy! The Headaches!
^^ 24 minus commercials would still work. but that only leaves for a few hours of sleep. lol...check this out
lets say 15 mins of 24's episodes are commercials.
15min * 24 (episodes) = 360 min
360 min * 4 (seasons) = 1440 min
1440 min * (1/60)[hours/min] = 24 hours.
24 hours of commercials.
anyway, back to topic (sorry about that by the way)
i just think we are reading a little too deep into the time traveling thing. unless they explain it (which i think they will), we should just assume a very simple single timeline without complications.
lets say 15 mins of 24's episodes are commercials.
15min * 24 (episodes) = 360 min
360 min * 4 (seasons) = 1440 min
1440 min * (1/60)[hours/min] = 24 hours.
24 hours of commercials.
6 hrs a day for food and sleep...not too bad after all, considering that's about what I get anyway. As for further time-travel speculation? Any more and my head will explode! I'm just waiting for Chapter Ten to roll around at this point.
20 bucks says Charlie forgets hiro, because the hatian "deletes" her memory. And hopefully tonights episode will give some insight on who the hatian really is. But why would they kill off Hiro's love interest, so far he and peter are the most heroic, and Peter has Simone(think thats how you spell it.)?
if it follows a single timeline, ando would have also teleported back to japan.
it does follow a single time line... and a persons death can't be put off once it has occured... even tho he was about to get charlie on the bus, he couldn't save her cause she was going to die anyway...(blood clot in her brain)
When Hiero was about to smooch Charlie he teleported back 2 days after he and Ando left. So he was commited to going. Ando wouldn't have teleported back cause he didn't do it with Hiero they actually flew so there is no path to travle back if it would have been possible for ando to go back.
Hiero has no control of where he ends up presently so sad
the town they are in is next to a bus station and an airport...it is beliveble that peope show up and dissapear on a regular basis so it wouldn't be surprizing that Hiero isn't around anymore. As far as them not recognizing Ando they had no knowledge of him 6 months ago so how are they supposed to know who he is? Also when Hiero was in the present they hadden't seen him before. but in the next ep i'm sure they will come to console him over charlies death if they hang around the diner long enough because now they know of him
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Wow, I didn't think that was even possible! 
As for further time-travel speculation? Any more and my head will explode! 
I'm just waiting for Chapter Ten to roll around at this point.
