Yes, the changing photo does indeed prove that there is a single timeline, but that is not the point I was trying to make. MTF is saying that there was an initial, unaltered state of the timeline where the cheerleader died and Sylar became unstoppable, thus prompting "Future" Hiro to travel back in time to the "Present" for the very first time with the intent of warning Peter that Claire needs to be saved. "Future" Sylar piggy-backs, possibly using the mimicry of a now dead "Future" Peter to escape his time before it is overwritten by the actions of "Future" Hiro. Now, in order for "Present" Peter to have enough time to piece things together AND make it to Odessa to save Claire, "Future" Hiro had to go back well before the Charlie incident. Therefore, the overwrite begins BEFORE "Present" Hiro meets and loses Charlie and decides to travel back in time himself. Hence, the first photo of them together in the diner does not appear until AFTER he goes back in time, spawning the second overwrite in the timeline. (Note that the whole "Future" Ando situation is in fact not an overwrite at all. The "Future" that "Present" Hiro witnesses is not the same one that "Future" Hiro comes from at all. It is an alternate version of the "Future" that exists ONLY because Hiro vanishes from his own timeline for five weeks. Once he returns, everything is simply reset as if nothing ever happened; hence, no overwrite in this case. Now back to my own original timeline lol.) This model perfectly predicts what we know to have happened so far, plus adding explanation to the unusual discrepencies in Sylar's powers (which I will not go into, for time's sake).
Now, your theory, as I understand it Masdog, is this: there was no initial condition of the timeline that spurred a first time-jump by "Future" Hiro, but rather time is in an infinite loop. Your model states that there is one Hiro, who time-jumps simply because he knows that he's done it before, instead of doing it out of any actual need to do so. However, if this is the case, that time continuously cycles solely as a result of the Predestination Paradox, then the photo in the diner should always show Hiro with Charlie, which it clearly did not.
My appologies if this was hard to follow, I just explained to the best of my abilities what I interpretted to be both of your meaning,while simultaneously presenting my own thoughts on the matter.
Yes - that is it exactly!
Awesome, glad I got it right. I just hope that others can understand what I was trying to say...I know my continuous use of "Past/Present/Future" probably made things even more confusing.
Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:54 am Post subject: little girl scenario
This has been bothering me for a while. Go back to the Matt scene where he hears the little girl. He enters the room and kind of wanders around. Frozen guy with his arm mid raised, top of head removed implying that Sylar had harvesting his particular power. wife impaled with multiple utensils. Matt finds a secret nook directly underneath the impaled wife.
i have a bunch of problems with this. ok, Sylar comes in and freezes husband mid-scoop. wife freaks out and he has to send all the dining utensils against her and impales her against the wall. where does the daughter have time to hide, especially since the entrance to the secret nook is in plain sight.
maybe the little girl has the power of teleportation, it's not explained and there seems to be a family connection to having powers.
My next question is why did he go after the daughter at the police station? If he knew about the daughter he should have expected her at the house, it was dinner time and she seemed somewhere in the range of 10-12. i'm saying he didn't know about her, per the list.
look at it from the terminator perspective. the easist way to win a fight is to kill the fighter before they can harm you. the original sylar went after the only target he knew about and future sylar went after his imminent threat (unsuccessfully)
Okay wow...I skimmed through about one and a half pages but I got the gist of what you guys are talking about. If this is already noted or talked about, sorry.
We know by now that Sylars power is to see how things work and the first power he 'absorbed' was one of telekinesis. How long ago was that, a few months or a year or even more before the heroes timeline started? By the time Audry (is that the female cops name?) and Matt shoot at him, Sylar would've had quite awhile to progress with his TK abilitys. So that in turn, atleast to me, shows that Sylar didn't time travel.
In the later episodes, Sylar seems to have gotten sloppyer. With the first confrontation with Eden, wasn't the hashen there? If so Sylar wouldn't have been able to use his powers. -nodnod-
Sylar took his first ability about 6 months ago, i.e. the episode "Six months ago".
If you're talking about when Sylar takes Eden's life, no, I don't think the Haitian was there. If he was, he may not have known that Sylar was using his power. AFAWK, the Haitian and HRG had no knowledge of what wsa going on in that room atm. They were just on a routine trip in and found the body, and thus used a tranq gun they had for emergencies such as this one. They knew he'd get out eventually.
I still kind of doubt the fact that Sylar time traveled...(and sorry about the random confusion about when he got the TK power...it was late ). I still think his original power may have something to do with how well he learns how to use a power...
I dont think he time traveled either. Kring's said he wants to see Sylar come back in season 2, and personally if we have a whole Back to the Future thing going on with him, we aren't going to get very far before we start seeing a lot of inconsistencies. One time traveling hero is good enough for me.
I dont think he time traveled either. Kring's said he wants to see Sylar come back in season 2, and personally if we have a whole Back to the Future thing going on with him, we aren't going to get very far before we start seeing a lot of inconsistencies. One time traveling hero is good enough for me.
Yeah, and if future Hiro allready came back, then wouldn't the "Future Sylar" allready have taken his powers unless he got to Future Hiro later than that? (which I doubt because as of now it seems Hiros english still isn't that good and he dosn't have the goattee).
Unless theres some Hero who can bend the atmosphere in turn affecting time! Buwahaha! -watching too much bleach and gets smacked by Nova-
I dont think he time traveled either. Kring's said he wants to see Sylar come back in season 2, and personally if we have a whole Back to the Future thing going on with him, we aren't going to get very far before we start seeing a lot of inconsistencies. One time traveling hero is good enough for me.
Yeah, and if future Hiro allready came back, then wouldn't the "Future Sylar" allready have taken his powers unless he got to Future Hiro later than that? (which I doubt because as of now it seems Hiros english still isn't that good and he dosn't have the goattee).
Unless theres some Hero who can bend the atmosphere in turn affecting time! Buwahaha! -watching too much bleach and gets smacked by Nova-
All of Isaacs' paintings have so far been absolutely accurate.
Isaac paints a massive explosion, and the ruined city aftermath.
Hiro was actually in the future and saw the massive explosion.
Peter also dreams the future where he is overwhelmed with a new power and causes an explosion. (<I>The</I> explosion, or <I>just</I> an explosion?)
As of Ep15, nobody has ever managed to change the future. Hiro's interlude with the waitress have reinforced that.
So, with the above observations in mind, I put it to you that the explosion that levels the city does indeed take place, Isaac does indeed die.Their attempts at preventing it prove futile. The future has already happened.
The best they can do is make sure the explosion happens where it does, <I>after</I> the city has been evacuated. All the other heroes are there to try and prevent Silar from getting precognition.
Actually, the interesting thing is that, according to Isaac's paintings, the city WASN'T "levelled". A nuke, in the middle of a metropolis would, quite literally, level the entire city. All buildings would fall, especially skyscrapers. If not from the several thousands of pounds of pressure from the winds of the explosion, they would fall from structural damage.
Take another look at Isaac's paintings. It's pretty clear that only the rooftops, and higher level floors of the buildings were damaged. After all, the roof of the building that Simone's father was in was still there.
After reading this thread, I wish to add some more:
Future-Hiro's message - "Save the cheerleader, save the world" may not be what it appears.
What did Future-Hiro achieve by doing this? He managed to get Peter introduced to Isaac, Claire, and Hiro, and of course, absorb their powers. Claire did not need saving, she would have survived if the cavalry had not arrived. In fact, she'd never even had been noticed by Silar.
Future-Hiro's message was basically "Go to this home-coming and meet up with a few friends, and say hello to your arch-nemesis while you're there."
Of course, Peter survives, as the scar comment implies. Even later when he creates a massive explosion, you are assuming he is consumed by it. I suspect he is immune from its effects, just as radioactive man is immune from his own.
And may I make the point that Manhattan is not the world. There are greater things afoot. Mark my words...
(Although that'll be in Series 2)
After reading this thread, I wish to add some more:
Future-Hiro's message - "Save the cheerleader, save the world" may not be what it appears.
What did Future-Hiro achieve by doing this? He managed to get Peter introduced to Isaac, Claire, and Hiro, and of course, absorb their powers. Claire did not need saving, she would have survived if the cavalry had not arrived. In fact, she'd never even had been noticed by Silar.
Future-Hiro's message was basically "Go to this home-coming and meet up with a few friends, and say hello to your arch-nemesis while you're there."
Of course, Peter survives, as the scar comment implies. Even later when he creates a massive explosion, you are assuming he is consumed by it. I suspect he is immune from its effects, just as radioactive man is immune from his own.
And may I make the point that Manhattan is not the world. There are greater things afoot. Mark my words...
(Although that'll be in Series 2)
I agree except that I think it's far past season 2. I'd say more like 5 or 6, cross your fingers that it gets that far.
hiro's interlude with the waitress was in the past. the future perhaps could be a different matter. im thinking nathan plays the martyr here and sends whoever's about to blow up- into the air
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I just hope that others can understand what I was trying to say...I know my continuous use of "Past/Present/Future" probably made things even more confusing. 
Geezo Peezo! I'm wiped out after renting 
.....Dang! 
). I still think his original power may have something to do with how well he learns how to use a power...
