Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: Villains and Heroes in Vol3
Didn't want to clutter up Leader's Micah thread... I agree that Micah might become a villain, but there are a lot of other changes to come, as well!
Here's what I think the lineup will be:
Heroes:
Hiro
Ando (if Hiro lets him)
Peter (but hasn't made up with Hiro yet, and will be conflicted in dealing with some of the villains...)
Elle
HRG (second half of season)
Monica (but mostly tries to convince Micah of his bad deeds.)
Hana (but is too busy blogging to do anything useful.)
West (but Sylar kills him)
Claude (probably not. but it would be awesome!)
Villains:
Sylar
Nathan (who the *@$# shot me? now I'm @#^@%#!)
HRG (makes a deal to keep Claire safe, first half of season)
Claire (you killed my father, then brought him back to life and made him evil again, AND my boyfriend hates me. CLAIRE SMASH!)
Micah (encouraged to use his powers for bad intent)
Matt (as in S2, using whatever means necessary to hunt down whoever he thinks is the "bad guy")
Adam (his disciples dig him up. spends most of his time trying not to get killed by Sylar.)
Meredith (petty crime.)
Either One / Who Cares:
Mohinder (who always seems to help the side he's opposed to, instead of the side he's on.)
Nikki (same reason. she didn't die in the fire, dies slowly from the virus. finally.)
Maya (same reason. probably spends the season running from Sylar and accidentally killing people.)
The Haitian (does not seem to have a specific agenda)
Angela Petrelli (wonderfully ambiguous. let's keep it that way.)
Bob (he's good, he's bad, he's incompetent.)
Molly (oh? what's that, Elle? Sylar ran away and you can't find him? oh. that sucks.)
Neither:
Drucker (gets killed right before he's about to actually tell us something useful. Like what Angela's power is.)
DL (because he's dead. D-L with it. get it? get it? ahem.)
So Volume 3 is called "Villains" because the villains are going to steal the show, with the exceptions of a few scenes where Hiro and Peter stop arguing long enough to kick some butt. I can't wait!
Hey Frying man. Thank you for starting this thread. I think speculation of seasons to come is half the fun. See which of your predictions come true, and which not.
I have my own take on theories that are similar to yours in some ways:
Heroes:
Hiro
(although i feel he will evolve into terrorist hiro, he'll still be mostly good)
Charles Devereux
(he is still dead, but can still use his abilites while dead to battle the ultimate antagonist of the third season. Who will be Angela Petrelli.
Micah
(will be the protagonistic example that losing everything doesn't justify evil intent. In my opinion, D-L tought his son what being a hero really meant, No one can take that from him; even if they take his medal and kill his mom)
Peter
(although I feel he will do more harm than good. his core is relentlessly good, but his naivety makes his an almost guaranteed pawn to be used for evil)
Monica
Claire
(done with west thank god, out to do the right thing, not sure how she feels)
Hero Chick from First season who can communicate with the internet (who approached Ted and brought him out of hiding)
Villains:
Sylar
Angela Petrelli
(Restarts her plan to devastate humanity to heal them)
Arthur Pitrelli
(not actually dead; Faked his suicide so that he could completely run the Company from behond the scenes. Part of a plan created by Linderman, Bob, and Arthur, while Arthur was Linderman's defense attorney. Also a co-creator in the plan to destroy new york) The reason for this being Angela, Arthur, Linderman, and Bob were all disciples of Adam (the true founder and inspiration for the company's existance) and although felt Adam was thinking on too grand a scale with the 138 virus; still wanted to see if Adam's philosophies would actually work in practice; and attempted to do an experiment in a smaller controlled environment
[Thusforth, the plan to blow up New York] However Arthur is still alive and convinced his plight is the right one.]
Mohinder
(Not because the villains really want him on their side, but he's really good at fulfilling the needs of villains despite his intentions; and always succeeds in ruining things for the good guys)
Noah Bennett
(makes a deal to keep Claire safe, first assignment: kill Claire's biological father to keep him from revealing his abilities and protect the company)
The Haitian
(is not inherently evil; but his closest loyalties are to Noah and Angela Petrelli, who are evil and thusforth makes him participate in evil activities. May defect by end of season; unlikely however)
Maya
(will be recruited as a mass effect biological weapon for the company)
Matt Parkman
(will progressively appreciate the value of free will less and less as he continues to abuse his powers, I suspect he will be the main villain of Season 4, and will actually kill his father)
Elle Bishop
(she may want to turn good this mood swing, but she's gonna get killed by Peter's Irish girlfriend anyways for killing Irish big bro, Claire will have a part in her death as well)
Robert Bishop
This guy is bad news, I think they will reveal that he co-ordinated more than getting Noah to assainate Nathan, and was the one Angela was speaking with after Nathan's execution .
Neither:
Molly: her death at he hands of Maya (while being in the vicinity of one of Maya's intended victims) will trigger Matt to kill Maya, and begin his path to villainy
Nikki: B.B.Q
Nathan
(finally at peace. figuratively and literally)
Ooo, I didn't even think about Charles! I'd love it if he came back.
It would be great if Charles and Claude could help Peter learn how to control his powers, but Peter is kept from totally saving the day because members of his family are most of the main villains. It's cool to see Peter use his powers, even if only defensively.
We've seen that the only thing that can really turn Hiro into the bad mother shut-your-mouth we saw in Five Years was the death of Ando. I'll go along with the outlaw Hiro... meaning someone will kill Ando! I think it will be Angela who kills him/has him killed, for reasons that we won't find out until Volume 5.
Hana Gitelman (the chick who's name i couldn't remember with the powers to communicate with electronic information; who approached Ted while he was in reclusion) died during the events in Kirby Plaza, in a battle in Space while trying to disable the Satilite tracking system (while Parkman and Bennet went after Molly before they knew the tracking system WAS Molly).
But even after her death, her consciousness still exists in the internet; and apparently can communicate with Micah. I think she will be Micah's new ally and moral compass while he copes with Nikki's death.
That's my theory about why Micah won't turn out to be a villain.
My theory about Angela Petrelli being a villain for the third season stems from my belief that her power is to influence the atmosphere; not exactly like Storm of the X-men, but I believe she can create natural disasters, and I think the headline "Snow Falls in Miami" is a result of Kaito Nakamura convincing Angela that Adam influencing her to create a disaster which would bring mass death in order to 'heal' people was not the right way. And that's when she no longer sided with Adam. At least long enough for her to stop what she was going to do to Miami.
I think Angela Petrelli was manipulated by Adam to almost destroy Miami, so that he would have the opportunity to steal the 138 virus. However, Angela is stopped and Kaito returns to deal with Adam well before Adam had expected; and that is when Kaito intercepted him and had him locked away, Kaito would have locked Angela away forever as well, but he was having an affair with her so he spared her punishment.
Also I think that explains why Kaito was so quick to dismiss Victoria Pratt's insistance in 1977 that there was someone undermining the company working with Adam (cause he knew the other founders would have her killed) unfortunately, Maury was the one Victoria had in mind, not Angela (cause in fact they were both traitors siding with Adam). I think in later years both Kaito and Angela became disillusioned and left direct control of the company, because Angela spent so much time on Nathan's campaign, and Kaito seems to have been fully devoted to his software company Yamagato. (although I bet they are/were still privy to current company intel)
However afters 30 years of Adam's imprisonment, Angela, Linderman, Arthur Petrelli, (and possibly Bob) started to wonder if Adam had the right idea afterall and perhaps had doubts that Kaito and the side of the group of twelve that opposed Adam's philosophies, and thus hatched the plan to heal America by causing great tragedy to make everyone actually appreciate the value of life. (The Bomb). Adam's concept; but didn't have the measure of death Adam's plan did.
Well Sylar seems like the perfect tool for the Petrelli family to orchestrate some new threat of impending mass death and thus forth will assemble together much the way the heroes have. Ultimately, Peter will have to kill his parents; and Sylar who really is his arch-nemesis.
Note: I think they did themselves good killing Nikki (I'm half speculating; half hoping that she is dead,) and getting rid of West and the Japanese princess. They should focus on the complex nature of the story writing, on not cheap lovey drivel that does nothing to advance the plot. But Tim Kring already said less love, more powers; so I'm not bitching.
In fact I think they should continue to kill of the less interesting main characters who take away from the potential of other better characters:
i.e. Nikki makes Micah less interesting, West detracts from Claire, Mohinder just gets more and more pathetic, Maya is portrayed by the worst actress on the show; and Elle is horrendously annoying;
Kaitlyn added nothing to the plot (should be left in the future to come back season 7 as a bitter old woman who has the power to be a bag lady of the future, and tries to kill Peter with pop cans) And they should either make Monica really smart and really vindictive and evil really fast; or just kill her off. Cause we already have a bumbling, good hearted, naive, protagonist, and unless you have Peter's plethora of powers.... it's not good t.v. Even for a muscle mimic.
And I think it will be revealed in vol 3. that Kaito had no powers, and was recruited originally to the group of twelve for his loyalty and discipline. Kaito did say he had been waiting for someone in the Nakamura line to manifest abilities, I think he was impling that of powers; he had none. I also think Victora Pratt was an non-evolved human as well; recruited solely for her profession.
Also I really liked the character of Nathan Petrelli but unfortunately I think he's dead. Not too sure bout that. But I'm 110% convinced in my mind that HRG (Noah Bennett) was Nathan's killer (or if he survives; the triggerman). I don't think he particularly wanted to kill Nathan being he was Claire's real dad, but he probably got orders from Bob, and he's determined to keep Claire off company radar.
Some excellent points there, Nostradamus! I had forgotten a number of those details.
I would add that the plan to blow up NYC and Adam's plan to release a virus have one very big difference: Adam's plan could potentially kill all of the founders of the company. So the company may have always agreed with him, in theory, they just didn't want to be collateral.
If Nathan dies, I think there's a good possibility that Peter will either become a total whiney recluse ("wah, everyone around me dies") or a vengeful ends-justify-the-means-er ("grr, everyone around me dies!").
Hmm. I'm going to have to go back and rewatch some episodes now!
It really irks me whenever people think that Future Hiro was a terrorist. Everyone fails to forget that Sylar, an evil man, was in charge and used propaganda against Hiro to get the public against him and ensure his capture. Hiro was never or never will be a terrorist, he was just trying to redo the past. Though he killed people at Homeland Security and whatever, he was fighting against people that were hunting him down based on Sylar's orders- he was not a terrorist!
If you can understand; when I refered to 'Terrorist hiro' I meant only that he was a tough, badass character who was only a terrorist against the Sylar regime. Which when you think about it; isn't really a bad thing.
If you would prefer a reference as "Rebel Hiro" it's all the same to me
Well, first I'd like to welcome all you new folks, so WELCOME!
And onto the topic;
I can't see Elle as a Villain. It'll be such a disappointment if she chases the whole atonement route. Her character is great as it is; Wicked!
I can't see Nathan or Matt evil.
Personally, I think they are going to have to introduce some more bad eggs. I'm not sure how I feel about a horde of new characters. It could be a wonderful thing, or it could suck. But most of the present characters haven't the potential to be evil, so I guess new blood is needed
I definitely want to see some real villains this time though! That was one of the major disappointments of Volume 2; "Where are the forces of darkness? Where's the BIG BAD?" People were just 'fighting' old relics (company, Adam, Maury) and a ghost from the past (virus). None of those were particularly intimidating - just manipulative.
Bring on the man-eating-piranhas-with-lasers-strapped-to-their-heads!
[/rant]
Squeaker, I agree that some new villains are in order. I voted as much in the whole create-a-hero thing that's going on at nbc.com.
Nathan and Matt have already shown that they're willing to use any means necessary to bring about what they believe to be the greater good... is this any different from the Company? Granted, this is different from Sylar and Adam, who are interested in their own personal gain. I think that Matt is going to lose touch with reality, and Nathan will be a "villain" in the sense that his actions will conflict with Peter's.
As for Elle, with Peter and Hiro running around, it's easier to be wicked as a hero than a villain. I guess that's called an Antihero? It would be nice to finally have a cool, assertive female character on the show. Other than Angela Petrelli.
Another villain to add to my list: Caitlyn. However she gets back to the present, she's not happy with Elle and Peter, nor the Company, and all of that traveling space and time has her a little out of her mind. Maybe she'll evolve a time-traveling ability... that's what her situation would need most, right? If this does happen, then, oh, if Peter and Elle were to hook up again, well, Hell Hath No Fury. (which will be the name of the graphic novel in which Caitlyn discovers P&E together.)
Newest reasoning for Nathan and HRG becoming villains, and changing my theory about Maya: -- Based on a realization I had while posting in another thread (1)
I think that using Adam's or Claire's blood to heal someone initiates Forced Fast Evolution. According to the ActivatingEvolution.org WIKI (2), this will cause "mutation gone wild." Therefore, HRG will both develop powers *and also* suffer some brain damage, which will take him a large portion of the season to learn to control; Maya will likewise have her personality altered and have her current power mutate into something akin to the manifestation of Uluru; Nathan... well... who KNOWS what will happen to Nathan but it won't be good. Maybe he will turn green and become evil (a la Sylar's painting from Season 1). And Sylar will start to lose control, maybe (as someone suggested... sorry, I don't remember who or where) he will develop a Niki-like split personality.
This would be the PERFECT SOLUTION to the "Claire's blood can bring anyone back" dilemma that the writers face when they go back to work. Yeah, you can bring them back to life, but you have NO IDEA what they're going to turn into. This is why no one healed Elle's arm, nor Linderman, nor any of the other Company founders.
Also, I think a lot of the not-yet-introduced villains of Season 3 will be Company experimentation with Forced Fast Evolution.
I just hope who ever the villain is / are - do a good job of keeping our interest levels up. There's nothing like a good Villain to spice up the chapters. Either that or Peter turning out to be a anti hero or a villain on his own accord.
I still think there will be atleast one Heel turn this season. Especially from a hero we love. Not sure who but that my Theory.
I think that this next season is going to be quite ambitious.
The main reaon? Because this last season didn't do ANYTHING for those who were really hard-core fans of the show.
So they're going to try to catch more interest by creating mroe villans, and then having power standoffs. This will involve more CGI and have better effects, making us go "ooh" and "Aah" more often.
I'd have to say that right now, I can see Bob, Angela, HRG, The Haitian, and West becoming something of a villanous or evil character. Sylar's already there, so there's no real point in adding him to this list yet once again.
Elle is going to be torn. I think most of this next season is going to revolve around here finally choosing sides. I think that while HRG is going to be doing everything in his power to make Bob happy, and keep The Company off of his family, he's also going to try to turn Elle against her father, and have her help him in joining the Bennetts, and becoming a serious threat with Claire.
I think we'll see Maya working with Mohinder to hunt down Sylar, if for nothing else than revenge for the deaths of their loved ones at his hands.
I don't see Micah as going to the dark side. I do see Monica as going that route, though.
After her encounter, I can see her starting up some vigilante ways, and then blatantly abusing that power when the local law enforecement try to curtail her actions. I see Micah as being on the outside, watching her, and trying to influence her not to do some things, but with the loss of Niki, Micah's going to be in some serious shock for the next season.
I also see us meeting the rest of the OWI Group. Once we meet the remaining members, then we're going to find out that Linderman and Angela aren't the only ones who have hidden agendas. There's more than one plan in the mix for some major "readjustment" to the world, and the rest of the heroes are going to be hard-pressed to be able to find and stop all of the twisted plots and plans that are going on.
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