Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:05 am Post subject: The Bomb. How, who, and why?
I looked through the forum for a thread centralized on the motives and people behind the bomb (went back to the page that has the thread stating that Matt's story is from 12 years prior), but couldn't find one. So here's this one. And for those reading the spoiler forum, for some reason, who don't want to get spoiled... here you go.
CONTAINS MAJOR PLOT POINT SPOILERS
What we know so far:
Who: Linderman. Malcolm McDowell has SOMETHING to do with the bomb going off. We don't know what exactly but we do know...
Why: He thinks it's going to unite the world in hope. It sounds a little overdone to me... Constantine's Gabriel wanting to destroy mankind so they can repent their sins and go to Heaven for example. The insane person thinking the only way to true world peace is through total destruction, i.e. you don't know what you've got till it's gone, I guess.
What we're unsure of:
How: We don't know if it's Ted, Peter, or Sylar that blows up still.
Why: Because we don't know which one blows up, we also don't know WHY it happens. Peter can control his powers now, so if he blows up, it's most likely of his own accord... same goes for Sylar and Ted, but that's because they're both insane wackos that really need some Prozac or something.
So I started this thread to consolidate the theorizing to one thread. (I noticed a lot of the threads are starting to get on this topic, and it's getting hard for me to keep up with)
Here's a couple of mine so far:
Sylar has nothing to do with it... in any of my ideas. Sylar probably finds out about the bomb and runs for the hills asap, AFTER taking Isaac's precog.
IF Ted, THEN: I doubt he does it on his own accord, contrary to the way I phrased it earlier. What do we know about Ted? We know if he gets shot, he blows up. We also know that Linderman's behind the bomb. We also know that Linderman has a two-faced (ha!) assassin who seems to be pretty fond of shooting people. Linderman sends her to kill him, she inadvertently blows up New York. GG jessie.
IF Peter, THEN: We're going to see Ted and Peter hook up really soon. By episode 21, if not sooner, I bet. Peter's going to test out his ability (purposely or on accident), and freak out when he realizes what it is, cuz, you know, the prophecy and all that. He can control his abilities really well... so if he does it, it will be his own choice. If it's Peter, Nathan's going to talk him into it, possibly even Hiro/Future Hiro. From the Primatech ARG stuff right now, and Hiro's blog, we recently learned that Future Hiro has an email address at Primatech Paper's website. Unless him and Hana hook up, I don't see Thompson giving out free company emails unless you work for them.
I've always been leaning more towards Ted, myself. I remember something, I believe it might have been in TV Guide, where Tim Kring said that they named Ted after Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, and that it was definately for a reason (not solely because he's a human bomb, himself, but because he'd actually use it). That, coupled with two other things - Thompson's remark in Ep. 17 when HRG asks what they planned on doing with Ted ("What do you think?")
-and- Matt in the preview for Ep. 19 -- It looks to me like something might go awry at Primatech with Ted and/or Matt. I'd been thinking for a while that perhaps The Company wanted to keep Ted as their new radioactive pet and let him loose when they needed something to go boom, but I have a new theory.
The Company, based on the guns they use, are some sort of underground gov't agency. They're probably the people that, if they get caught, the gov't would refuse to acknowledge existed. More evidence of this? HRG's license only said "Bennet," no first name. What state doesn't require first names on DL's? Perhaps Bennet isn't even his real name to begin with! Anywho, moreso, with the new Linderman info for Ep. 19, I'm thinking that The Company, whoever they are, do not want Ted out of their custody. Ted getting released would make it more likely for him to meet Peter and let them blow up a major city. I somehow doubt a gov't agency (if they are that) would ever want that to happen. That'd be like Homeland Security letting someone get on a plane with a bomb.
I'm guessing that when Ted wakes up, he's -not- going to be happy, and he's going to try to blow the place up and get out and as far away from that place as he can, thus becoming more of a danger to the people of NY.
It's just a theory, but it seems to make a little bit of sense to me
BTW: Is it just me, or does it look like Primatech is serving celery, carrots, and mystery meat today?
I hate to be a bubble burster, as I usually am (I'm so negative on these forums. I don't know why) But it is confirmed that Ted gets loose from "the Company". Wether its by his, or their, choice is unconfirmed.... but we do know that HRG, Matt, and Ted all wind up in jail together somehow. Which, as I said the last time I posted this, seems pretty pointless. If it was the company that put him in there, you can tell they did it on purpose, as they know that Ted could irradiate his way out. If it was Ted that got himself in there, then I doubt it would be the normal police that would be picking him up.
Personally, I think this just points more towards a Linderman > Company connection. Linderman wants the "boom-ka" to happen, and, like you said, Thompson's very simple response when asked what they were doing with Ted was "What do you think?". There's not much you CAN do when dealing with a man who essentially belongs to a man with enough power to sway an entire election all by himself.
So then your assumption is that we have an older Meta (Linderman) with his own vision of a "Manifest Destiny" and his goal is to get Ted into position to blow away an entire city. This, in return is going to set off a chain reaction of sorts? What kind of reaction is he hoping for? Global nuclear war? Or just to wipe NYC off the face of the earth, and then deal with the aftermath later?
I'd think that he could find some better target for his manifest destiny rather than NYC. I mean, the WTC has just barely been cleared, and you're talking about nuking the rest of it? Give me a break.. Lay to rest the indigineous terrorist idea, and let's see if there's something more behind his goal than just wiping out the city.
Linderman strikes me as being cold and calculating, so my guess is that he's been hunting that resistance of Claude and company. I think he's found them and their den in NYC, and he's willing to nuke the city in order to get rid of them once and for all.
I also lean towards Ted and I am basically basing my guess on what was said at The Company once he was captured and Bennet asked about him. Perhaps knowing this also made Mr. Bennet want to stop The Company besides the obvious Claire issue.
As to why Ted does it... I don't think he'd do it FOR the Company per se but could be manipulated to thinking that's how he'd get his revenge.
As to why it is a "milestone of change" well from Linderman's point it is obvious that the even will catapult his candidate (Nathan) to places of higher power. In such away that a "Meta" agenda could be furthered.
So then your assumption is that we have an older Meta (Linderman) with his own vision of a "Manifest Destiny" and his goal is to get Ted into position to blow away an entire city. This, in return is going to set off a chain reaction of sorts? What kind of reaction is he hoping for? Global nuclear war? Or just to wipe NYC off the face of the earth, and then deal with the aftermath later?
I'd think that he could find some better target for his manifest destiny rather than NYC. I mean, the WTC has just barely been cleared, and you're talking about nuking the rest of it? Give me a break.. Lay to rest the indigineous terrorist idea, and let's see if there's something more behind his goal than just wiping out the city.
Linderman strikes me as being cold and calculating, so my guess is that he's been hunting that resistance of Claude and company. I think he's found them and their den in NYC, and he's willing to nuke the city in order to get rid of them once and for all.
How does that strike you Acid?
I think it sounds a little like killing a fly with a grenade. : / But it is possible. He just has other resources to get to Claude/the resistance, so I think if he was after them, he wouldn't necessarily need to nuke an entire city just to kill them. That, and I'm assuming they aren't all in NYC, so nuking them, if the whole resistance isn't there, would just put a scare into the others who knew about the nuke already.
I think Linderman does have a plan to blow up NYC. Malcolm McDowell and Tim Kring have both stated it. He wants to unite the world in hope with the event. At both of the times that either of them said this, they also mention Linderman pointing out the prophecy of Nathan getting in the White House. I'm still leaning towards Linderman thinking that Nathan can pull something off that has to do with the bombing once he gets elected into Congress that will boost his positioning for the prophecy. He thinks that if they just let it happen, everything will tie itself up in the end, and make Nathan a future leader, leading us into a generation of hope.
We already know that the heroes will end up in NYC all at the same time before the end of the season. So the pieces are already in play.
I hate to be a bubble burster, as I usually am (I'm so negative on these forums. I don't know why) But it is confirmed that Ted gets loose from "the Company". Wether its by his, or their, choice is unconfirmed.... but we do know that HRG, Matt, and Ted all wind up in jail together somehow. Which, as I said the last time I posted this, seems pretty pointless. If it was the company that put him in there, you can tell they did it on purpose, as they know that Ted could irradiate his way out. If it was Ted that got himself in there, then I doubt it would be the normal police that would be picking him up.
Personally, I think this just points more towards a Linderman > Company connection. Linderman wants the "boom-ka" to happen, and, like you said, Thompson's very simple response when asked what they were doing with Ted was "What do you think?". There's not much you CAN do when dealing with a man who essentially belongs to a man with enough power to sway an entire election all by himself.
I think the spoiler you are referring to says HRG Matt and Ted are "incarcerated" not in jail. Incarcerated could mean that they are being held at The Company, which I believe is actually the case . There are several pics that indicate this.
So I'm 99% sure I know what happens. I'm basing this on a whole combination of spoilers here, so this requires a bit of reading. And, just for safety's sake, I'll stick a warning and some space in here...
VERY PROBABLE MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD
Here goes... first, I'll list what I think happens for sure now.
Peter or Sylar is the cause of the explosion. I still don't know why yet. Everyone (everyone alive, that is) is in New York at the time, just as in (or as close as possible) Peter's dream. Everyone dies.
Here's why:
What lead me in this direction, is an interview on this site, TV Addict:
How hard is it not to know, people are dying, things happen?
Greg Grunberg: It’s exciting. I just read episode 22, which absolutely blew me away. I can honestly say that it’s going to blow everyone here away as well.
[Everyone looks at Milo….. (laughter)]
I dunno about you... but that was some very clever wording on Greg's part, imo. The fact that everyone kind of gave it away by looking at Milo didn't help.
Kristin from E! said that everyone will die on Episode 20, 5 years in the future and 2 episodes earlier than the "next big death", which she states will be done by Sylar eating someone's brain. The two conflicting reports (Greg's comment + cast's reaction vs. Kristin's "next big death" report) confuse me... but I trust someone who just read a script over someone, even Kristin, siting a source claiming to know the death from a script that was just read by the actors. Unless her source is another actor, writer, or other higher-up in the team... I'm gonna take Greg's word over hers for the time being.
Nathan- “If you know all this, you also know the exploding man is my brother Peter,” Nathan says.
Linderman- “As I said, we all have our role to play. Peter’s curtain call will come the day after you’re elected.”
I think this interview was mentioned before, if not by me then by someone else.
I have never thought it was anyone other than Peter. It wouldnt make sense if it were Ted or Sylar with Claire running up and sying "I'm Sorry", Simone crying, Nathan walking toward them determined.
And as for everyone dying, I'd say no, not everyone.
Isaac (most likely) and Simone are already dead
Claire could survive it.
Peter may be able to survive it and from everything i've heard, will.
D.L. could phase right through it.
There is a FUTURE Hiro, so I'd say Hiro survives (and that means he'd probably teleport outta there w/ Ando)
Most of all, Nathan must survive it. The whole point of it happening is so that he becomes president.
Does anyone remember Mohinder's opening speech in ep 1? It was something among the lines of "But we are not the pinnacle of so-called evolution. That honor belongs to the lowly cockroach. Capable of living for months without food. Remaining alive headless for weeks at a time. Resistant to radiation. If God has indeed created himself in his own image, then I submit to you that God is a cockroach."
I have read here that Sylar "studied" the cockroach to escape "the company" and got me thingking; Resistant to radiation....what could that mean in regards to the explosion.?
(if anyone has mentioned this b4...sorry)
Nice catch, JustSum... I remember it. This got me really thinking. It's already been confirmed HERE that Sylar will die in episode 19. However, it does not say that he will be gone for good. Thus, some of us have speculated that Sylar possesses some sort of "rebirth" type of power, almost like "the phoenix," in which he is able to revive after he has been killed.
Additionally, if he has indeed taken on some of the characteristics of the cockroach, he can now make himself resistant to radiation.
Now there are a few things to consider depending on who goes boom:
1) If it's Peter, then it is most likely accidental in that he cannot control Ted's power. In my opinion, Peter would never kill off millions of people, for any reason.
2) If it is Ted, then my guess is that it's most likely unintentional because he has been injured. When he is shot by Thompson, the pain he experiences goes hand in hand with his ability to control his power. I am also going to say that since HRG/Matt/Ted will be working together in escaping the company, Ted will have a change of heart about people in general, more specifically HRG, and will just focus his anger on the Company rather than any other innocent people around him.
3) If it is Sylar, then it might be accidental because he can't handle Ted's power, but I doubt it - I'd like to give Sylar and the writers a little more credit, lol. It would thus most likely be on purpose because Sylar is just a sick psycho.
However, let's think about this. Sylar will have to cut Ted's head open in order to obtain Ted's power. This will obviously result in great pain on Ted's behalf. What happens when Ted is hurting? He EXPLODES (as we've seen in "Company Man").
Thus, my theory is that there are only two candidates for our explosion: Peter or Ted. Either Peter will explode accidentally, or Ted will explode as a result of being injured - possibly by Sylar. Sylar is eliminated from the running because Ted would most likely explode before Sylar could fully cut his head open, regardless of whether or not Sylar was holding him in place with telekinesis.
Going back to the cockroach, if Sylar has indeed taken on the characteristics of the cockroach, he is resistant to radiation, and if he possesses the ability to revive himself after dying, then there is a good chance that he could survive the explosion, even when standing right in front of Ted when it happens.
Jorm had mentioned in the "Peter vs. Sylar" thread that it's recently been proven that cockroaches are just as susceptible to radiation as we are. However, suppose we were normal, everyday fans watching the show - no theorizing, no spoilers, no studying for answers. If we were those type of viewers, which is the majority of people watching the show, then we are expected to only know what we are told. Thus, if Mohinder says cockroaches are resistant to radiation, then in Heroes, cockroaches really are susceptible to radiation.
Going back to the cockroach, if Sylar has indeed taken on the characteristics of the cockroach, he is resistant to radiation, and if he possesses the ability to revive himself after dying, then there is a good chance that he could survive the explosion, even when standing right in front of Ted when it happens.
I don't think Claire or Sylar could survive being within a few yards (maybe more) of a nuclear blast. They would be vaporized.
Action Figure wrote:
I have never thought it was anyone other than Peter. It wouldnt make sense if it were Ted or Sylar with Claire running up and sying "I'm Sorry", Simone crying, Nathan walking toward them determined.
I don't think the dream is predictive, except maybe in a very general way. People in the dream act weirdly (Nathan, Hiro, and Ando are way too calm, and I can't see Hiro walking away from that). Simone is already dead, so that detail isn't predictive. I think it might not be Peter who explodes, even though that looks the most likely.
OFFICIAL NBC DESCRIPTION (Added 3/30/07): HAVING STOLEN THE SWORD AND TELEPORTED FIVE YEARS INTO THE FUTURE, HIRO AND ANDO BEAR WITNESS TO A GRIM, HARROWING FUTURE FOR THE "HEROES"-- Thrown five years in the future, Hiro (Golden Globe nominee Masi Oka) and Ando (James Kyson Lee) discover that people with extraordinary abilities are not only widely known about -- after the destruction of New York City and the deaths of millions -- but are being registered, imprisoned, hunted and even killed as "terrorists." As the President takes his first step towards a "final solution," the pair get swept up in what could be the "Heroes" final battle and encounter a range of new and darkly familiar faces. If they survive the experience, can they still get back to the present and save the world? Santiago Cabrera, Jack Coleman, Noah Gray-Cabey, Greg Grunberg, Ali Larter, Hayden Panettiere, Adrian Pasdar, Sendhil Ramamurthy, Leonard Roberts and Milo Ventimiglia also star. Stana Katic, Jimmy Jean-Louis and Zachary Quinto guest star.
I've posted before that a devastating explosion caused by someone with powers would not make life for other people with powers better. So unless Linderman is willing to throw them under the bus for his "brighter future" as well, destroying NYC (no matter who actually explodes) is unlikely to work. The spoiler confirms that.
And did Nathan took Linderman's offer and became president? Did he turn against other supers? How did this affect Linderman's plan?
I don't think Claire or Sylar could survive being within a few yards (maybe more) of a nuclear blast. They would be vaporized.
Well, perhaps, but I'm still a little iffy on that subject. However!!... who came to mind when I thought about potential survivors?
D.L.
Could he phase through an explosion?
Hmmm... as much as I want to believe it, I'm still a little skeptical because although he can phase through physical objects, the heat from the explosion is actually a form of energy, and D.L.'s ability might not be able to stretch this far.
However to add to this: (see below)
Payquage wrote:
I don't think the dream is predictive, except maybe in a very general way. People in the dream act weirdly (Nathan, Hiro, and Ando are way too calm, and I can't see Hiro walking away from that). Simone is already dead, so that detail isn't predictive. I think it might not be Peter who explodes, even though that looks the most likely.
Hiro's new blog has finally been cracked HERE, and it reveals the message:
"DL", which shows us that perhaps Future Hiro is telling Hana to reach out to D.L., possibly meaning that he survives the explosion. Why is this significant? Because it may serve as proof to your point, Pay, that Peter's dream is not predictive. If D.L. cannot phase through an explosion, then this means that he is not present in NY when it happens (unlike in the dream).
Ho boy, I have a new theory... but this isn't the place for it... go to the Hiro's Blog link I posted above to read it!!
Well, here's a thought that I think I've had in another post as well but I've been away from the boards a bit so I'm fuzzy Bear with me on this, it really is on topic...
What if, instead of HRG, Ted, and Matt escaping, the company let's Ted and Matt 'escape' with the help of Candice appearing as HRG. The reason might be that they don't believe that Matt got nothing from HRG when reading him and they've think found a way to "turn off" Ted's power and want to study him. So they're using the same trick on he and Ted as they did on HRG in the hotel, which is why they have to keep HRG there, because he won't fall for that again.
The three of them head back to NY (for whatever reason) and they cross paths with Sylar (again, the circumstance of this isn't all that important). Sylar kills them which gives him Matt's ability which goes a long way towards balancing he and Peter in regards to their battle(s). It also gives him Candice and Ted's abilities which would allow him to explode while looking like Peter. I know there is speculation about his ability to use multiple powers simultaneously, but it hasn't been proven or disproven yet that I'm aware of.
I think that Peter and Sylar have a large confrontation on the streets of NYC during which Sylar takes on Peter's appearance to confuse the others and make them hesitant to get involved. After Peter still gets the best of him he decides to use Ted's ability in an act of frustration.
Peter's dreams, in my opinion, should be taken with a grain of salt because they are very open to interpretation. It could be a mish-mosh of accurate things that are misrepresented because it's a dream state. Also, just because we only see one 'Peter' in this dream, doesn't mean he's the only one there or that they aren't 2 different dreams that he's not distinguishing between.. People running up to him could just be a reference to how people think of him (i.e. Nathan tries to help, Claire is sad about losing him, etc...) or they are running up to the actual Peter but it's the Sylar-Peter who is exploding.
In summary, I think it's Col. Mustard, in the study, with th...er, I mean Sylar, in the street, with the power of Ted.
And he may or may not survive. I don't think we've seen anything concrete that says an explosion would even kill Ted, have we?
If the above is true... then WOW! Sylar takes on three supers and kills them all. One of which could fry him with radiation. He would then be one bad mother... shut yo mouth!
I havent heard anything said about Isaac's painting showing a light being emitted from inside a taxi. I dont know if this important other than showing the characters that the explosion will be in NYC, but they all ready know that.
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- It looks to me like something might go awry at Primatech with Ted and/or Matt. I'd been thinking for a while that perhaps The Company wanted to keep Ted as their new radioactive pet and let him loose when they needed something to go boom, but I have a new theory.
