But Sylar survived. Why? Because, up until that point, Hiro didn't have Isaac's comic book. So he would have gone forward, firstly not thinking to go after Sylar, and secondly not knowing that Sylar kills Ando.
I'm not quite following. When Future Hiro originally tried to kill Sylar, he didn't have the comic, but he still knew to go after him.
Because if Hiro hadn't jumped forward in time when escaping Linderman's casino, he would have still gone to Isaac's apartment to contact him about what to do next, or let him know they got the sword. That's when he'd find the body, and start tracking Sylar.
Same timeline, but our present Hiro has more knowledge available to him than Future Hiro would have.
But Sylar survived. Why? Because, up until that point, Hiro didn't have Isaac's comic book. So he would have gone forward, firstly not thinking to go after Sylar, and secondly not knowing that Sylar kills Ando.
I'm not quite following. When Future Hiro originally tried to kill Sylar, he didn't have the comic, but he still knew to go after him.
Because if Hiro hadn't jumped forward in time when escaping Linderman's casino, he would have still gone to Isaac's apartment to contact him about what to do next, or let him know they got the sword. That's when he'd find the body, and start tracking Sylar.
Same timeline, but our present Hiro has more knowledge available to him than Future Hiro would have.
I’m sorry, I’m still not following. If Future Hiro, when he was in November of 2006, knew enough to track Sylar, why wouldn’t the more knowlegable Present Hiro?
You say his jump from Linderman’s interrupted his visit to Isaac’s body. But that’s exactly where he goes when he returns from the jump.
And there’s something else that doesn’t sit right with me. If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that Sylar precogs that he’s the bomb, that he intends to be the bomb, that he takes Ted’s power to be the bomb, that he survives past the point where Hiro is supposed to kill him (without the benefit of Claire’s powers) -- but that he, in fact, isn’t the bomb.
No, you understand me just fine I'm just trying to BS my way out of mis-speaking earlier.
He'd have had the knowledge to track Sylar, but for different reasons. In Future Hiro's reality, he tracked Sylar solely because Isaac was killed, and at that point he'd probably go on some trip where he's avenging Charlie, in the process of which would get Ando killed, leading to an even darker Hiro; the one we saw. However, in present Hiro's reality, he not only has the knowledge that Future Hiro had, he also has the comic book: preset knowledge of when and where to encounter him, giving him the element of surprise. He knows how to end it, and when to end it. He even knows of a "Why" to end it, now, thanks to Ando's missing page.
In other words: he has every thing that Future Hiro had, plus the element of surprise, and he has inspiration behind him that he wouldn't have had before.
EDIT: I missed that last paragraph somehow.
I'm guessing the Hiro/Sylar thing won't be resolved this season (it may look like it will... but they'll add some kind of surprise in there, like Linderman healing him, or him faking his death similar to the way he'd done it at Primatech), so yeah, he survives past the point we see Hiro kill him in. He's not the bomb. He precogs A bomb, but as of yet has referenced to only THINKING that he's the bomb, which means he hasn't actually seen who the bomb is. Yeah, he'll grab Ted's power before the season ends, and he'll conflict with Hiro, he may even appear to die... but Kring'll bring him back this September.
I'm guessing the Hiro/Sylar thing won't be resolved this season (it may look like it will... but they'll add some kind of surprise in there, like Linderman healing him, or him faking his death similar to the way he'd done it at Primatech), so yeah, he survives past the point we see Hiro kill him in. He's not the bomb. He precogs A bomb, but as of yet has referenced to only THINKING that he's the bomb, which means he hasn't actually seen who the bomb is. Yeah, he'll grab Ted's power before the season ends, and he'll conflict with Hiro, he may even appear to die... but Kring'll bring him back this September.
All right. Fair enough.
But...how much sense does it make, just from a scriptwriting standpoint, to have so much tense foreshadowing in Episode 21 and the trailers for Episode 22 about Sylar moving into position as the bomb, and even using his power to pre-cog it -- when they've already revealed in Episode 20 that he's not going to be the bomb?
Am I the only one who thinks this is a strange way for some of the best writers in the business to conduct themselves?
You're right, it is strange, but it will certainly set up some great scenes.
Thanks to thinking he's the bomb, he goes ahead and takes Ted's radiation power. Assuming he does live through this whole ordeal one way or another, we've got a serial killer with the power to nuke entire cities. It may not make sense now, but in the long term, it benefits the action/drama sects of the show, because it only sets up more conflicts.
I'm guessing the Hiro/Sylar thing won't be resolved this season (it may look like it will... but they'll add some kind of surprise in there, like Linderman healing him, or him faking his death similar to the way he'd done it at Primatech), so yeah, he survives past the point we see Hiro kill him in. He's not the bomb. He precogs A bomb, but as of yet has referenced to only THINKING that he's the bomb, which means he hasn't actually seen who the bomb is. Yeah, he'll grab Ted's power before the season ends, and he'll conflict with Hiro, he may even appear to die... but Kring'll bring him back this September.
All right. Fair enough.
But...how much sense does it make, just from a scriptwriting standpoint, to have so much tense foreshadowing in Episode 21 and the trailers for Episode 22 about Sylar moving into position as the bomb, and even using his power to pre-cog it -- when they've already revealed in Episode 20 that he's not going to be the bomb?
Am I the only one who thinks this is a strange way for some of the best writers in the business to conduct themselves?
I don't fully agree that Sylar will not be in position to be the bomb. Remember that Peter saving the cheerleader is what change the bomb from Sylar to Peter. Who can say that Hiro comeing back may not change things again. Maybe in the second loop (Peter as the bomb) Hiro never went to Sylars house...so things may already be on a different path then the last time...
You're right, it is strange, but it will certainly set up some great scenes.
Thanks to thinking he's the bomb, he goes ahead and takes Ted's radiation power. Assuming he does live through this whole ordeal one way or another, we've got a serial killer with the power to nuke entire cities. It may not make sense now, but in the long term, it benefits the action/drama sects of the show, because it only sets up more conflicts.
Twist, who's the figure next to Ted in Sylar's painting?
Also, how do you account for Isaac saying, "I finally know my part in all of this. To die here with you. But not before I show them how to kill you ... and stop the bomb. I finally get to be a hero."
The 9th Wonders comic that he sent off. Present Hiro is now in posession of that comic, thus he now knows what Sylar's weakness is, and where Sylar's going to be.
Future Hiro had it on a table in episode 20, and Mohinder grabbed it. Before Present Hiro returned, Mohinder gave that comic into his hands, and told him that the comic was the key to stopping Sylar.
Now, Hiro and Ando are back in their own time, and are armed with the knowledge of where Sylar is going to be, and how they are going to be able to stop him. The biggest question is are they going to be able to follow through with what the comic dictates?
Issac foresaw that Hiro would land the telling blow, so I don't have any doubts that Hiro will think that he's put an end to Sylar. However, I also have to agree with Twister that Linderman isn't going to let Sylar go that easily, and I am of the mindset that he's going to heal and release Sylar once again. After all, Linderman's not going to admit he's been bested yet.. There's still a standing NYC that Sylar needs to blow up!
You're right, it is strange, but it will certainly set up some great scenes.
Thanks to thinking he's the bomb, he goes ahead and takes Ted's radiation power. Assuming he does live through this whole ordeal one way or another, we've got a serial killer with the power to nuke entire cities. It may not make sense now, but in the long term, it benefits the action/drama sects of the show, because it only sets up more conflicts.
Twist, who's the figure next to Ted in Sylar's painting?
Also, how do you account for Isaac saying, "I finally know my part in all of this. To die here with you. But not before I show them how to kill you ... and stop the bomb. I finally get to be a hero."
It's Ted and Sylar in the painting (though I don't think he's taking Ted's power here, probably just watching them and how they work).
He, semantically, seperated "kill you" and "stop the bomb". He showed them how to kill Sylar, and how to stop the bomb after he's dead. Which, is wrong either way, as we all know the bomb's going off in the finale anyway. But, in the course of wording, there would be no purpose to LETTING Sylar know he's the bomb, if he was actually the bomb. It would only push him forward. So why, in your dying words to try and "stop the bomb", would you tell "the bomb" that he is "the bomb"?
Yes, the bomb is GOING to happen. Is it gonna kill .07% of the world's population? Not even close. New York will be saved, the world will be saved, but the face of evil will live on. And now the heroes are LITERALLY gonna have to save the world in season 2. Some people will die by this season's end. But I'm positive the bomb that happens is not gonna kill a lot of people.
You're right, it is strange, but it will certainly set up some great scenes.
Thanks to thinking he's the bomb, he goes ahead and takes Ted's radiation power. Assuming he does live through this whole ordeal one way or another, we've got a serial killer with the power to nuke entire cities. It may not make sense now, but in the long term, it benefits the action/drama sects of the show, because it only sets up more conflicts.
That's not what I'm saying is strange.
What I mean is this. In Episode 19 they make viewers think Sylar is the bomb. In Episode 21 and the previews for Episode 22, they continue along this path, building suspense around Sylar moving closer and closer to bombhood. It's a great way to misdirect the audience, setting them up for a twist when Sylar turns out not to be the bomb.
Except -- back in Episode 20, they let the audience know that Sylar wasn’t going to be the bomb, spoiling their surprise. How much tension can they instill in viewers, regarding the Sylar bomb threat, when they’ve already let those same viewers know that it’s a transparent charade?
If that really were what they were doing, it would be ridiculously incompetent writing. But Kring and his minions, while not perfect, are anything but ridiculously incompetent.
AcidTWister wrote:
He, semantically, seperated "kill you" and "stop the bomb". He showed them how to kill Sylar, and how to stop the bomb after he's dead. Which, is wrong either way, as we all know the bomb's going off in the finale anyway. But, in the course of wording, there would be no purpose to LETTING Sylar know he's the bomb, if he was actually the bomb.
Unless...knowing you were dying, you wanted a final satisfaction?
AcidTWister wrote:
It would only push him forward. So why, in your dying words to try and "stop the bomb", would you tell "the bomb" that he is "the bomb"?
Might it be okay to tip your hand as long as Sylar "couldn't fight the future"?
What I mean is this. In Episode 19 they make viewers think Sylar is the bomb. In Episode 21 and the previews for Episode 22, they continue along this path, building suspense around Sylar moving closer and closer to bombhood. It's a great way to misdirect the audience, setting them up for a twist when Sylar turns out not to be the bomb.
Except -- back in Episode 20, they let the audience know that Sylar wasn’t going to be the bomb, spoiling their surprise. How much tension can they instill in viewers, regarding the Sylar bomb threat, when they’ve already let those same viewers know that it’s a transparent charade?
If that really were what they were doing, it would be ridiculously incompetent writing. But Kring and his minions, while not perfect, are anything but ridiculously incompetent.
They've also been leading viewers to think that Peter's the bomb since episode 11. And as of episode 22, imo, it's going to come down to a race to see who can explode first, because they will both have the power to explode. Only one of them is destined to, though.
In otherwords: to call it strange that they would do that, after misleading the viewers to think that Sylar is the bomb, and then showing them it's Peter, after we've been lead to believe that it's Peter all along in the first place... why can't it just be a plot device, put in to add more suspense to the situation? That's all I see it as. Anything more is overanalyzing, imo, not bad writing.
[quote]If we don't limit ourselves to an overly literal interpretation, might he not have meant "stop the bomb" from visiting its destruction on Manhattan, from doing its monstrous work of killing millions?[quote]
Yes. In fact, I don't doubt that is what he meant... but what does that have to do with what I said about separating the phrases? Of course he meant stopping the bomb from all that, but it doesn't mean he meant both would be accomplished in the same action.
Quote:
Unless...knowing you were dying, you wanted a final satisfaction?
A final satisfaction in making an already complicated situation more complicated? A satisfaction in making an already powerful murderer more powerful? A satisfaction in making a man that needs to be stopped nigh unstoppable?
I fail to see where Isaac's satisfaction would lie in doing this.
Quote:
Might it be okay to tip your hand as long as Sylar "couldn't fight the future"?
No, because previously, he had no idea what was coming. The only reason you'd tell him he's the bomb, or at least give him the idea that he might be the bomb, is if he isn't. Telling a mass murderer how to kill millions of people provides no satisfaction. It does nothing but help Sylar... which is the opposite of what Isaac had set out to do.
They've also been leading viewers to think that Peter's the bomb since episode 11. And as of episode 22, imo, it's going to come down to a race to see who can explode first, because they will both have the power to explode. Only one of them is destined to, though.
In other words: to call it strange that they would do that, after misleading the viewers to think that Sylar is the bomb, and then showing them it's Peter, after we've been lead to believe that it's Peter all along in the first place... why can't it just be a plot device, put in to add more suspense to the situation? That's all I see it as. Anything more is overanalyzing, imo, not bad writing.
Well, maybe I haven’t understood you precisely enough. Granted, they’ve been suggesting first one and then the other candidate over several episodes. If all you’re saying is that both candidates are still in the running, then we have no disagreement. But what I thought you were saying was, that in Episode 20, they definitively revealed that it was to be Peter and not Sylar. Revealing that so early would diminish the suspense rather than add to it, and it would render ludicrous the tense foreshadowing in 21, and the 22 previews, because viewers would already know that Sylar's candidacy will soon founder.
Buick wrote:
If we don't limit ourselves to an overly literal interpretation, might he not have meant "stop the bomb" from visiting its destruction on Manhattan, from doing its monstrous work of killing millions?
AcidTWister wrote:
Yes. In fact, I don't doubt that is what he meant... but what does that have to do with what I said about separating the phrases? Of course he meant stopping the bomb from all that, but it doesn't mean he meant both would be accomplished in the same action.
I actually edited this away a few minutes after I posted it. Naturally, my luck dictated that you’d see it during that window, brief as it was.
Buick wrote:
Unless...knowing you were dying, you wanted a final satisfaction?
AcidTWister wrote:
A final satisfaction in making an already complicated situation more complicated? A satisfaction in making an already powerful murderer more powerful? A satisfaction in making a man that needs to be stopped nigh unstoppable?
I fail to see where Isaac's satisfaction would lie in doing this.
I'll answer this below.
Buick wrote:
Might it be okay to tip your hand as long as Sylar "couldn't fight the future"?
AcidTWister wrote:
No, because previously, he had no idea what was coming. The only reason you'd tell him he's the bomb, or at least give him the idea that he might be the bomb, is if he isn't. Telling a mass murderer how to kill millions of people provides no satisfaction. It does nothing but help Sylar... which is the opposite of what Isaac had set out to do.
The satisfaction lay in telling Sylar that he’d ultimately lose. And my take on what Isaac meant by “you can’t fight the future” is that, even with his newfound knowledge, Sylar simply couldn't succeed.
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