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verzen · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:19 am Post subject: Slavery

I know that the intention to Slavery was a horrible one. But seeing Africa how it is today, do you think Slavery could of unintentionally saved many peoples lives who were born today? If they never came to America, then they could of been in the eternal conflict which makes up Africa.

What do people think

Denebola · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:41 am Post subject:

I think your theory is completely insane and uninformed. eek

Yikes. Not you. Your theory. I can vaguely understand what you mean, but that's kind of like saying being enslaved with the threat of death would be better than... death without the slavery first. Like, what? An American History course would skewer this idea, and, honestly, it really needs a good skewering. Not you. Your theory.

Hiroismyhero · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:20 pm Post subject:

nonamer · Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject:

Wow i was just thinking about that teh other day, yeah slavery is wrong but it did bring the a huge immigration of african americans, without it America wouldn't be the America we have today.

hardlyaaron · Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:59 am Post subject:

While you do have a point in a way. I am sure African Americans would have maybe made their way west eventually, or stayed in Africa if they were happy there. Sure America would be different for it as we wouldn't have the Rock or Rap music that has developed, and lets not forget good ol' Samuel L Jackson(Who is one of my fav. actors) but coming to America should have been their choice and they should NEVER had to have been inslaved.

birq · Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:02 am Post subject:

Your theory kinda reminds me of Pastwatch: the Redemption of Christopher Columbus by Orson Scott Card. It's about people who try to undo the "wrong" done by Columbus to the natives of Central America, but discover that...

Spoiler
...the "current" history is actually the latest in what might be a series of corrections of corrections, and that they're just trading one series of tragedies for another.
If you haven't had a chance to read it, I'd recommend it. It's not Card's best work, but it's pretty dang good.

The_Blob · Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject:

self-fulfilling prophecy syndrome?

essentialy a "causality loop" and/or paradox being created because changing the past throught time travel removes the motivation for the time travel in the first place thereby resetting events to a state whereupon the traveller wants/needs to correct them.

I don't know, I'm not that smart.

bugmuncher · Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject:

The discussion of whether the descendants of slaves in America are better off than the descendents of non-slaves in Africa is interesting, and Verzen's point about unintentional good consequences to offspring is a good observation so long as the observation doesn't lead to a conclusion that the morality of slavery is somehow different because ofthose unintended consequences. And Verzen, I think a lot of people thought that was where you were going, which is why people attacked your argument.

The fact that a majority of slaves' offspring in America don't have to walk 2 miles a day to get to clean drinking water, can attend school through 12th grade for free, and have access to food and motor transportation, and have more clothing and material possessions than people in developing countries doesn't somehow change the morality of enslaving their ancestors, or of freeing their ancestors and then making unfair laws to keep them in check for another hundred years, as many states did.

birq · Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject:

Denebola · Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject:

Another thing I just thought of. What if America's treatment of African-Americans in the past influenced the current racial climate of Africa today? Perhaps in some twisted way, there's some unconscious, "Well if America did that, what's so bad about this?" And if the migration of Africans was good as an end but not as a means for America, then how can you say it wasn't bad as an end, and as a means for Africa?

Maybe some South Africans and others in Africa use what America did to Africans back then as a justification, or even as an impetus? We'll never know these things though, because we can't change history. If I knew more about what happened to Africa after the slave trade ended, this would probably be a more convincing argument.

Am I making any sense?

Payquage · Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:18 am Post subject:

Why do we assume that Africa would be the same if slavery had never occurred? Perhaps if Africa had not suffered the loss of human potential and centuries of colonial rule, people would not be suffering there now.

verzen · Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:31 am Post subject:

Zonedancer · Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject:

Payquage said