Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:36 pm Post subject: Matt Neuenberg (from the new GN) will be a villain
Here's a new theory based on the most recent Graphic Novel, entitled "The Man With Too (Much) Brains"
There isn't a lot of information that I have to work with right now, so I'm wondering if you all think it's plausible that the writers would go in this direction. Here's the background for those who haven't read it:
Matt Neuenberg is a high school student. He is a very SPECIAL high school student. He possesses the ability of eidetic memory, the same power that Charlie (from Season 1) possessed. Matt has been labeled as a freak by many classmates because of how smart he is. He is coerced into performing in a talent show where he answers random question after question correctly, until parents and adults in the crowd begin calling him a freak too. He runs off stage and is confronted by Elle, who says she will take him to a place where special people are accepted (The Company) and promises to protect him. He undergoes many painful tests and realizes The Company is no better than the people in the real world who were calling him an outcast.
Here's my theory (which may contain spoilers, so I've hidden it):
I think that the writers could be introducing this new character, Matt Neuenberg, in order to bring him into Volume 3: Villains. Spoilers state that there may be some specials held captive at The Company that could potentially break free. Well, judging by this scenario, Matt could very well still be in one of the cells at The Company.
I'll give you something better - at about 2 seconds into the clip seenHERE (just click "Afficher" about halfway down the page), you see a guy saying "You can't hurt me" to Sylar. Well, I know it was only a Graphic Novel, but doesn't this guy look a lot like Matt Neuenberg? Curly hair and all...
I think that Sylar confronts Matt N. at The Company and is about to take his ability when he realizes, somehow, that he already has this ability (since he got it from Charlie). As he is about to kill Matt just to get rid of him, Matt convinces Sylar that he can help him because he, too, wants revenge on The Company and on the world. Matt poses no threat to Sylar in regards to his ability, so what better ally to have than someone with a mind of gold. Matt could potentially become the "brains" of this new group of Villains, while Sylar acts as the "brawn."
I know we don't have much info about Neuenberg aside from one Graphic Novel, but what do you think... could the writers be going in this direction? Is this a plausible theory?
Very, very doubtful of this one. Matt has a harmless power which I think isn't just enhanced memory, but more like enhanced intelligence. A man named Daviel Tammet, with the Savant Syndrome can do all the things Matt can do, but it is considered genius actions not memory. Tammet holds the European record for memorizing and recounting pi to 22,514 digits in just over five hours. He sees numbers in his brain as colors and shapes, and each one connects with him in different emotions.
I think Matt's power is being overlooked, and is more like that power that was in the Create Your Hero, Superior Mental Speed or something. Matt seems to know answers to questions that he would have never looked up, as in the places of pi. This could be like him having advanced knowledge and he just knows everything.
Matt would not become a villain with Sylar, because if Charlie had the same ability, which is the same deal with Matt not just enhanced memory for she learned how to fluently speak Japanese in a very short amount of time without much knowledge of the entirety of the language. She said words that weren't said to her by Hiro or read in the phrase book. So, looks like Sylar has the same ability as Matt, therefore he would not need Matt. If anyone needs Matt its the Company who would use his endless amount of knowledge to create new weapons and ways to find Heroes.
Sylar, if he taps into this power more could maybe use his knowledge to create a new list to find all the Heroes. I mean common this is a superior intelligence power, all the rest of the Heroes are going to be outwitted by Sylar easily in the episodes to come if he uses this.
Matt has a harmless power which I think isn't just enhanced memory, but more like enhanced intelligence. A man named Daviel Tammet, with the Savant Syndrome can do all the things Matt can do, but it is considered genius actions not memory.
Matt seems to know answers to questions that he would have never looked up, as in the places of pi. This could be like him having advanced knowledge and he just knows everything.
On the title page of the Novel, it clearly states: "Matt Neuenberg has always felt like an outsider because of his unique gift of memory." The writers have clearly stated to us that his power is memory, nothing more, nothing less, IMO. Sure, the developed ability of memory could be an all-knowing type ability, but that hasn't been revealed to us yet.
VeryBadOmen wrote:
Matt would not become a villain with Sylar, because if Charlie had the same ability, which is the same deal with Matt not just enhanced memory for she learned how to fluently speak Japanese in a very short amount of time without much knowledge of the entirety of the language. She said words that weren't said to her by Hiro or read in the phrase book. So, looks like Sylar has the same ability as Matt, therefore he would not need Matt.
I disagree - I think Sylar will come to a realization that he cannot win alone, and that if he hopes to win, he must work together with others that are for the same cause as him. It's already been confirmed by the writers that
a legion of villains will be getting together during Volume 3, and there's nobody better to be working behind the scenes, as the brains of the operation, than Neuenberg, while Sylar is out slaughtering all of the good guys. Just because Sylar has the same ability as Neuenberg doesn't mean that Sylar can fight the good guys and plan strategies at the same time. Matt Neuenberg can be planning strategies elsewhere, out of harms way, while Sylar attacks. And if Sylar is part of this legion of villains, then it means he's decided to keep them alive and not kill them. The most useful person to him that poses absolutely no threat is Neuenberg. Therefore, why not use him to your advantage?
Sure it says enhanced memory, but he can evolve his ability to other areas of knowledge just like Matt Parkman did. He already showed this with Pi, and Charlie did with learning Japanese. Matt Parkman was at first, able to read minds, a telepath. But now, he can Control Minds. In the beginning you would have said this would have never been has ability, but now it is. Matt Parkman has developed control over his ability and I'm sure this new Matt will use his ability to develop a super-human amount of knowledge and therefore the ability to create brand new knowledge and theories. He could create new weapons and devices, maybe even one to time travel. Lets not be so narrow-minded here Popkorn...
Sure Sylar will team up with other villains, but why are you so crazy about this harmless kid siding with a bunch of crazed-heartless criminals. I mean he couldn't even take name-calling. Plus, Sylar has his ability, if anything Sylar would be jealous of someone else with one of his abilities and just kill them.
Besides, it looks like he is starting to like it at the company, he's sort of found a friend in Elle who rescued him from his sorry existence. Now, he CAN finally have friends in the company. Just a few brain tests aren't going to make him turn against someone who says they will really help him out. If Sylar came and started killing all people in the company, Matt would be horrified and would probably be taken captive by Sylar more than willingly join him.
Sure it says enhanced memory, but he can evolve his ability to other areas of knowledge just like Matt Parkman did. He already showed this with Pi, and Charlie did with learning Japanese.
Well, the fact that he knew the value of Pi to the ump-teenth decimal does not mean that he has evolved his ability to be able to know everything. For all we know, he could have just as easily read the value out of a book and memorized it. Similarly, Hiro said, "That is not in book" during the present timeline. Charlie had the Japanese translation book for six months before she said that quotation to Hiro, so for all we know, she could have read it in another translation book, especially since we found out that she really wanted to go to Tokyo. It'd only be appropriate for her to study the language in the time leading up to her trip. While she said that she had only been studying the book for a week, we know that Hiro going back in time changed certain things (like the photograph on the wall), so because of his trip back in time, Charlie could have definitely started to study Japanese much earlier.
I'm not saying that I don't like your theory about eidetic memory developing into a knowledge of all things - I definitely do like that theory, but in my opinion, we haven't seen it develop yet, not from Charlie, and not from Matt Neuenberg.
I don't like to quote Heroes Wiki, since it is user-submitted information, but on Charlie's page it says:
"Charlie's abilities seem somewhat more advanced than an eidetic memory. She appears to have total understanding of the information she absorbs. For example, she not only memorized Japanese, but had a near-fluent ability to use it."
This is a perfect example of Charlie's/Matt's ability. It does support your theory that eidetic memory can be developed to another level, but there's a difference between an "understanding" of how to use something (like a language) and knowledge of it. For example, an understanding of the English language would be like the rule "'i' before 'e', except after 'c'" - so someone learning the English language would know that if an 'i' and an 'e' come after a 'c', it will most likely be 'cei' as opposed to 'cie.' On the other hand, knowledge of the English language would be actually knowing that the Spanish word 'perro' translates into 'dog' in English, and so on. While I do like your theory about Charlie/Matt developing their power into knowledge, I think they more likely posses the ability of 'understanding.'
VeryBadOmen wrote:
Sure Sylar will team up with other villains, but why are you so crazy about this harmless kid siding with a bunch of crazed-heartless criminals. I mean he couldn't even take name-calling.
This isn't just any harmless kid. This is a kid who has been taken by The Company, and kept in a cell, just like Adam and just like Peter. The Company never voluntarily released Adam, and never voluntarily released Peter, so by the looks of things, chances are they haven't released Matt Neuenberg either. This could very well mean that Matt is still at The Company, locked in a cell.
I am 'so crazy' about this kid teaming up with a bucnh of a crazed-heartless people because Matt Neuenberg has seen the world for what it is - heartless - both in regards to the humans and to The Company, so after being tested and locked up, it's only right that Matt would become heartless, evil, and derranged himself.
And besides, the writers would not devote a whole Graphic Novel to some kid we've never heard of unless this kid possessed a significance to the series. This could thus be foreshadowing that Neuenberg will be appearing in Volume 3.
VeryBadOmen wrote:
Plus, Sylar has his ability, if anything Sylar would be jealous of someone else with one of his abilities and just kill them.
I know Sylar has eidetic memory already, but I disagree that he would be jealous of someone else with the same ability for the sole fact that it is a harmless power. If he met someone else with telekinesis, for example, then I would say that he would try to kill this person (since telekinesis could be used to kill Sylar). But again, Matt possesses absolutely no threat to Sylar, so there's no reason for Sylar to kill Matt, especially if Matt says he'll help Sylar take down The Company. Sylar could kill Matt whenever he wants, but for now, he needs all the help he can get.
In the case of Ando, a REALLY powerless person, Ando actually posed a threat to Sylar because Sylar knew that Ando and his friend (Hiro) wanted to kill him, which is why Sylar attempted to kill Ando.
VeryBadOmen wrote:
Besides, it looks like he is starting to like it at the company, he's sort of found a friend in Elle who rescued him from his sorry existence. Now, he CAN finally have friends in the company. Just a few brain tests aren't going to make him turn against someone who says they will really help him out.
There are two ways this could ultimately go:
(1) The Company has released Matt Neuenberg
(2) The Company has not released Matt Neuenberg
Since we know that The Company only keeps the 'dangerous' ones, there's a good possibility that they have released Matt Neuenberg, in which case my theory is rubbish, lol. But if they have released Matt, then there's no way they would let him keep his memory, so he won't remember Elle or anybody from The Company at all. In that case, he won't have any of them as his friends. (The Haitian appeared in the GN, so a mindwipe is definitely a possibility).
On the other hand, if they haven't released Matt, I definitely think that he's going to be angry, upset, and spiteful after being locked in a cell for no reason for an extended period of time. I don't think anybody in their right mind would be happy about being locked up and alone in a prison cell. If he's still at The Company,
Sylar could very well stumble upon his cell and set him free.
VeryBadOmen wrote:
If Sylar came and started killing all people in the company, Matt would be horrified and would probably be taken captive by Sylar more than willingly join him.
I definitely agree that Matt would be horrified and afraid, but still, if either of those two scenarios happened (the ones you mentioned above), it still means Matt being on Sylar's side, whether he wants to or not. I think Matt would definitely join Sylar, even if he doesn't want to, instead of being killed.
Matt possesses absolutely no threat to Sylar, so there's no reason for Sylar to kill Matt, especially if Matt says he'll help Sylar take down The Company. Sylar could kill Matt whenever he wants, but for now, he needs all the help he can get.
I think that Sylar wouldn't want help as long as he had powers. Sure he totally manipulated Maya, but only because he was powerless. Sylar is one of those people that strives for power, whatever the cost may be. But, seeing as there will be a series of villains to come and Sylar as their supposed leader, I could be wrong.
I think that the company really needs a evolved ability like Matts. Right now, they are running a little low on employees. They have no tracking device (satellite destroyed and Molly gone under super-powered protection). For all we know, Matt could be smart enough to create things they dearly need in the Company. Since when do they bring their captives things like cake anyways? Peter never got cake...Looks like Matt might be another Candice or Issac-like recruit.
We know the company is morally grey. So who is to say what they are doing isn't wrong in the long run. Putting Adam and Peter in cells WAS the right thing to do. Both of them are extremely dangerous. If they were released who isn't to say all hell would break loose, which almost did happen when they escaped: THE VIRUS. Who isn't to say that Matt's brain power isn't extremely dangerous also. Looks like the company might have some past knowledge of people like Matt in the company in the past. They put potentially dangerous people in cells. Issac was not dangerous, so they didn't detain him in such extremes.
Plus, who isn't to say that even if Matt hates the company, that the Haitian won't just erase the hate from his brain. Except, we have not seen memory being erased from people with enhanced memory, perhaps they are immune to it?
Which brings us to a new theory: Would people with enhanced memory be immune to the Haitian's powers? Sylar seems to remember things that the Haitian was supposed to erase...
Sylar has a history of using people before killing them. Mohinder, Maya, Chandra Suresh, that metal-melting guy. He's loony as a loon, but he's calculating, too. If he sees any benefit from leaving Matt alive, he'd do it. I don't think it's his "mind of gold" as PK suggested, it's the memories that he has about the Company, or some other topic that interests Sylar. And as far as we know, Sylar would *not* get Matt's memories if he ate his br-- I mean.... uh... killed him.
But Sylar is the brains of the operation, not just the brawn. And remember, he has that same power, so he already has someone with 'a mind of gold', as you put it, on his side - himself.
I'll comment more later, I haven't got much time right now.
I think that Sylar wouldn't want help as long as he had powers.
I very much disagree - as Frying Man has pointed out, we've already seen Sylar use the help of others in Season 1, many times in fact. He has used the help of:
1) Chandra Suresh, until Chandra did not want to help him any longer, at which point Sylar killed him.
2) Mohinder Suresh, until Mohinder discovered that "Zane" was actually Sylar, and after failing to kill Sylar, Mohinder was on the verge of getting murdered himself.
3) Maya, until they got to Mohinder's apartment and Maya found out Sylar's secret, at which point Sylar shot her (more so because she was being annoying).
4) Audrey Hanson and the FBI in order to facilitate the easy murder of Ted Sprague. Sylar didn't want to kill him in public, and that's the only place where Peter, Claire, and Ted were remaining. Thus, he enlisted the help of Audrey and the FBI in order to get to Ted into a private - not public - situation.
He's not just powerful, he's incredibly smart, and he knows that sometimes he needs help to get what he wants (Chandra + Mohinder provided him with The List, Maya provided him with a ride back to NYC, and Audrey provided him with Ted).
In "Villains," we can assume that Sylar wants to take down The Company, and I'm sure that he knows it will be an incredibly difficult tasks because he'll have to take on many people with abilities. What better way to take on a legion of specials than to recruit your own legion of specials?
VeryBadOmen wrote:
Sure he totally manipulated Maya, but only because he was powerless.
VeryBadOmen wrote:
Sylar likes to run it solo...he has no need to team up with anyone, he can just take their powers and be his own team.
In my opinion, there's no question that one person with many abilities (Sylar) versus many people with one or more abilities each (some of them developed to another level) would make it seem like the one person (Sylar) is powerless. It's not like Sylar taking on 10 cops each with a gun - he can stop bullets with TK. For all we know, there are more people that work for The Company that have powers
(like the new girl, Sophie, that will be introduced)
and that could have powers that Sylar can't stop (imagine 3 or 4 people with super-speed taking on Sylar - I don't think he'd be able to stop them all with TK). I believe that without at doubt Sylar will need help, just like he always has in the past.
VeryBadOmen wrote:
I think that the company really needs a evolved ability like Matts. Right now, they are running a little low on employees. They have no tracking device (satellite destroyed and Molly gone under super-powered protection).
According to spoilers,
a new character named Sophie will be introduced, and she will be the new person who is tracking specials (this spoiler actually dates back to the summer, but it was just re-confirmed in the General Spoilers thread).
VeryBadOmen wrote:
Plus, who isn't to say that even if Matt hates the company, that the Haitian won't just erase the hate from his brain. Except, we have not seen memory being erased from people with enhanced memory, perhaps they are immune to it?
Which brings us to a new theory: Would people with enhanced memory be immune to the Haitian's powers? Sylar seems to remember things that the Haitian was supposed to erase...
HRG instructed The Haitian to mindwipe all knowledge about Claire, etc, from Sylar's head. Thus, it is implied that The Haitian mindwiped Sylar. The first words that Sylar said when he confronted HRG after breaking free from his cell was "How's Claire." Furthermore, I believe it has already been confirmed by writers that Sylar remembered Claire's name because he possessed Charlie's ability of eidetic memory, so those who cannot be mindwiped are (1) healers (as seen by Peter), and (2) people with eidetic memory (as seen by Sylar).
Frying Man wrote:
I don't think it's his "mind of gold" as PK suggested, it's the memories that he has about the Company, or some other topic that interests Sylar.
Well said, Frying Man, and I tend to agree. It is the knowledge of The Company (provided that The Haitian didn't mindwipe it), that will be crucial to Sylar's taking down of The Company. This is definitely a reason for Sylar not killing Matt if they ever come into contact.
SIKORSKY wrote:
But Sylar is the brains of the operation, not just the brawn. And remember, he has that same power, so he already has someone with 'a mind of gold', as you put it, on his side - himself.
However, Sikorsky, Sylar has not always been the brains of the operation. As mentioned by Frying Man, he's enlisted the help of Chandra and Mohinder to serve as the "brains" because he needed something from them.
Sure, Sylar has eidetic memory himself, but that doesn't mean that he knows more about The Company than Matt. I'd venture to say that Matt knows more than Sylar about The Company, which means that it will be useful information. Hopefully, we'll find out in the next Graphic Novel. Next Tuesday can't come soon enough!
Well, from my viewpoint, I could see Matt as a new villan by this reasoning:
He was taken in under false pretenses by Elle, subjected to vicious experimentation, and then played with as some kind of live toy by the very person who was supposed to take him away from all of the problems he was facing.
This is a guy who should have a very big grudge against Elle and the Company, as well as a serious axe to grind for the treatment that he's received. I would, if I were in his shoes.
I could see him studying all of the books he could get his hands on in order to compile a very thorough list of tactical ideals and manuvers. Then, recalling that data, giving express orders on how to set up traps, or ambushes, or some similarly underhanded ways to get the Company to expose themselves so that one more small bite can be taken out of the bigger fish.
Anyway, that's just my take. It could be possible that Sylar would be willing to join up with Matt in order to further his own goal, because going up against the Company means that there's more of a possibility of taking down a few more specials, and gaining another ability or two, or three, or whatever..
Yeah I thought about it like that the same way JormenGrund. I think that once Matt accumulates enough knowledge he'll be able to create some very powerful weapons. He could become an almost Brainiac-type villain. That would mean a lot of trouble for a lot of people.
Well, from my viewpoint, I could see Matt as a new villan by this reasoning:
He was taken in under false pretenses by Elle, subjected to vicious experimentation, and then played with as some kind of live toy by the very person who was supposed to take him away from all of the problems he was facing.
This is a guy who should have a very big grudge against Elle and the Company, as well as a serious axe to grind for the treatment that he's received. I would, if I were in his shoes.
I completely agree, Jorm. Elle lied to Matt (well, she didn't lie to him, per-say,but she in no way told him the truth of the situation he was about to face at The Company). I'd definitely have a grudge against The Company too, and an electrified kiss from Elle wouldn't sway my feelings.
Jormengrund wrote:
I could see him studying all of the books he could get his hands on in order to compile a very thorough list of tactical ideals and manuvers. Then, recalling that data, giving express orders on how to set up traps, or ambushes, or some similarly underhanded ways to get the Company to expose themselves so that one more small bite can be taken out of the bigger fish.
Great thought, Jorm. However, my thought is that if he is going to be introduced into Volume 3, then he's still locked in his cell at The Company. And if he's still locked up, chances are that The Company hasn't allowed him to read any books. We know that Sylar will be headed for The Company, and I guess I just need some way of logically connecting Matt to the story without swaying too much from the plot line or creating any plot holes, and The Company provides us with that connection.
But of course, I suppose he could have already been released from his cell and introduced into the Series some other way, and then meet up with Sylar 'coincidentally' (though, we know how that turned out with Zane Taylor in Season 1 - plothole galore lol).
VeryBadOmen wrote:
I think that once Matt accumulates enough knowledge he'll be able to create some very powerful weapons.
I must have been mistaken at first, Very Bad, because I thought you meant that Matt would one day be able to just come up with knowledge on his own without learning it from somewhere. I got the impression that you meant he would just know things for the sake of knowing them without acquiring the knowledge. That inexplicable possession of knowledge is what I didn't like about the theory (because it seems too Godly and has no limits), but I very much do like the thought about him accumulating knowledge from somewhere and building it up to the point of him becoming a real threat.
I think the more general mass of knowledge Matt accumulates the more his actual intelligence and control and skill over the knowledge will grow. Example: Say he reads every theory about astro-physics and time travel. With all this information, he builds his own theory which ends up being a working science fact. Therefore he builds a device to travel through time. So, this is how he can become potentially dangerous, accumulated knowledge becomes advanced thought processes. He can already recall any information at lightning speed, its only a matter of time before he starts to use it the right way...
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