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How saving Claire, saved the world
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Jormengrund
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjamese3 wrote:
AcidTWister wrote:
pjamese3 wrote:
AcidTWister wrote:
I think only Jackie died in Future Hiro's future, simply because, by deciding to do something, you create a loop. Suddenly, in Future Hiro's past, Claire should now be alive regardless of whether or not she was before he came to Peter earlier in the season. On top of that, he should also now have memories of everything our Hiro has gone through now. It's a ripple effect, and it moves both forward in time, and backwards. Otherwise, you're not talking about time-travel, you're talking about interdimensional travel... and that's an entirely different thing.


Um, no. Let's not go with the Back to the Future school of disappearing photos time travel. "...by deciding to do something, you create a loop." WTF!!?? When Future Hiro appeared to Peter and set in motion time changes, he effectively either deleted his timeline and a new single timeline came about or created a new branch where Present Hiro MAY become the soul-patched one. Interdimensional travel doesn't even factor into it.

As far as the memories, he wouldn't have them seeing as he bypassed the linear time required to make memories. The idea of a time traveller getting new memories in a rush is just lazy Hollywood writing (like the fading picture in Back to the Future.) Proof from the show: When Present Hiro jumped forward in time -twice- he didn't have a rush of memories of his adventures trying to stop New York from exploding. It seems time travel is subjective. A traveller would remember what he experiences, not whatever events he bypasses.


It's not just Back to the Future that says this, it's simple logic.

If Future Hiro is Hiro from the future, then logically speaking, if he changes Hiro's past, he changes his own past. Thus he creates a loop in which a Future Hiro v2.0 visited his own timeline, and Present Hiro will visit Past Hiro 5 years from now so that his own timeline isn't altered into the one the Future Hiro's had turned into.

Interdimensional travel does factor into it. Everything past the third dimension is in relation to time, and alternate timelines. Check out www.tenthdimension.com to understand this, but here's a basic rundown of the dimensions:

Zero - a point
First - a line
Second - a branch (the corner of a square, for instance)
Third - a folded line
Fourth - a segment of time
Fifth - a branch in time
Sixth - a fold in time (going from your timeline to an alternate reality at the same point in time where the outcome is different from past events)
Seventh - A point including all possible timelines from start to finish (Big bang to the end of the universe). Aka Infinity as a single point.
Eighth - A branch between two infinities (all possible timelines from two completely different realities started by completely different initial reactions, a la two different big bangs) to a third inifinity
Ninth - A fold allowing travel in between the two ending infinities from before, with the original infinity as a starting point before the branch.
Tenth - A point including all possible timeinles in all the possible universes.

The sixth dimension is where it hits where we're talking about. If Future Hiro started things in motion, and started a chain reaction of events that caused his timeline to change, then, essentially, to travel back to his own time, would be to cross the sixth dimension, because now, his own timeline has branched into and alternate future where the death and destruction have still happened, away from the current timeline, where the bomb gets stopped, or if Claire died before Hiro had come back in time, that would also be an alternate dimension now. Any time you talk about alternate timelines, you're talking about something in, at least, the fifth dimension, and thus you're talking about interdimensional travel. Something entirely different than time travel, which is the ability to move along the fourth dimension, a single line between two points in time.

You are correct. He wouldn't remember what he bypassed. But technically speaking, if Future Hiro IS Hiro, then he DIDN'T by pass these things. He's currently going through them.

If Future Hiro hadn't visited Peter, would Hiro have ever found out he needed a sword? No, because Isaac never would've answered the phone, and he would've kept telling him to go away if he showed up at his apartment. So Future Hiro wouldn't have been seen with a sword, and Isaac never would've painted a sword in Hiro's hands. How do you explain how Future Hiro HAD the sword? He had to have either stolen it from Linderman in the future, or it was a result of time travel and the sword was in his possession to begin with, since he had stolen it in the past.


Just to see how long we can get this quote thing going.. after all, it does look quite pretty when it's big, bold, and black like that! ninja music1 music3 music2 pint wynar redx trophy headset
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first act as moderator, Jorm - I know you wanted me to try out my powers on you, but I'm gonna show remarkable restraint

offtopic

But as this topic is pretty much dead, and I can't think of anything to say that hasn't already BEEN said in this topic, I'm gonna leave it there...
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Save the Cheerleader to Save Peter from Sylar to Blow-up NYC to Save Peter and therefore save all METAS (aka HEROES) and thus SAVE the WORLD.

Hey, it's my theory, and I'm sticking to it!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears from today's graphic novel that the purpose of saving Claire was to prevent Sylar from getting her healing power as Sylar is the exploding man. Hiro states that he stabbed Sylar before he exploded, but he simply healed. Thus Hiro has reasoned that without Claire's power, Sylar would die. It also appears however that since the timeline has changed that Sylar is not the explosion, as Hiro's plan failed.

Ahhh-2000th post
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats Byd.

I'd have to say (before reading the graphic novel) that you're right.

After all, if Sylar gains the regen ability. How do you stop someone who won't die, and has the power to explode?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jormengrund wrote:
Congrats Byd.

I'd have to say (before reading the graphic novel) that you're right.

After all, if Sylar gains the regen ability. How do you stop someone who won't die, and has the power to explode?


Stick your sword in the back of their head. And never, ever take it out.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FaTbOy wrote:
we still don't know whether sylar actually takes anyone's powers. perhaps killing the special people just increases his own telekinetic levels.


While some of the abilities Sylar has gained could be mimiced by PK (and may actually be some manisfestation of PK) certain abilities like Eden's "voice" or enhanced hearing can't be PK.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

arkimedes78 wrote:
BYD wrote:
Juggnut wrote:
Well if you go by the theory that Sylar eats peoples brains and takes their powers, the if he had killed Claire and took her powers he would be unstoppable. He would have all his powers and spontaneous regeneration so he could do whatever he pleased.


It is possible, but it does not appear that having Claire's ability would have been able to help him defeat the awesome Eden/Haitian combo that appears to have captured him.


I think he may already have the power of regeneration. He was shot by Matt a few episodes back when he saved his FBI girlfriend, he got up and flew away, and he was also able to get up and walk away from falling off the top of the sports complex with Peter in the homecoming episode.


I think Sylar has a lesser form of regeneration he got from some as yet unseen person (another story for the graphic novel or a flashback.) Perhaps toughened skin. Bullets still hurt and may break the skin, but aren't lethal. It takes a while to heal, though.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sylar does not have Eden's ability.


Sylar does not have any form of invulnerability. in every instance it has seemed that something didnt hurt him the way it should, it was thanks to TK.


We've discussed this in other topics, so if you'd like to find the source on that go try and find it in the other posts. I know I dont feel like looking it up!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears that saving Claire did not save the world, stop the explosion, or change the future. This may indicate that initially Sylar was the explosion, but by saving Caire, events led to someone else causing the explosion, like Peter or Ted.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess you cant change the future then, eh?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evil pixie wrote:
I guess you cant change the future then, eh?


Well it certainly changed for Claire, being alive instead of dead.
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm, we're all wrong!

I am having serious misgivings about:

"Save the cheerleader, Save the world" after today's episode.

If F. Hiro thought he stopped Sylar who the first explodee, but he wasn't, and, Peter exploded ANYWAY, but survived (did Peter have Claire's ability?)

<Are we in LOOP 1 or 2?>

So, if Sylar did not explode and we are still in Loop 1, what was the point of Saving the Cheerleader? To give her power to Peter? From Episode # 20, THIS doesn't make sense!!!

We're all wrong!!!

There are no LOOPS! (I am thinking of a boy that says: "There is no spoon.")

Damn!

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First time through Sylar killed Claire and blew up


Second time through Clair e lived and Peter blew up


Ep. 20 is the future of the timeline as we know it.
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Action Figure wrote:
First time through Sylar killed Claire and blew up


Second time through Clair e lived and Peter blew up


Ep. 20 is the future of the timeline as we know it.


But Sylar never blew-up...... oh!.... In the comic book..... Duh!

So, Ep#20 was LOOP#2.
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