agreed and i think we look into hiros power too much i mean its plain and simple he bends time on a different level of physics just like all the other heroes powers are you would have no way of duplicatin this in real life which is why i think that their is no reason to look into this soo much it is what is son
What do we know about Hiro's power and its influence on objects?
-Personal Objects can be transported (clothing, bags, small objects in hand)
-Teleportation seems to be influenced by mental pictures (he went to Times Square, a popular image of NY. He went from sitting in the middle of the cafe to sitting in a booth, the first place he sat in the cafe when he came in.)
-Objects in frozen time conform to his time when touched (the roulette ball, the tire, the people in the crash, the martini glass (but not the martini, strangely enough... it should have just fallen on the floor when he touched it), the cards)
-Going into the future removes him from the events that could have taken place between the present and the future (when he calls Ando on nov 8th, Ando comments that he's been gone for a while)
Why cant the past be changed? Because it would cause a paradox. Hiro can't save Charlie because if he did, he never would have gone back to save her in the first place, and therefore she still would have died.
I think Hiro stops time, but he keeps a pocket of his own time around him. He imparts a perfect counter inertia on objects when he 'frees' them from their own time. The tire he touched should have come into his own time and smacked him silly, but it didn't because he imparted a counter inertia on it and allowed it to obey gravity.
edit:
Oh, and I think Hiro is the bomb. I believe he will try to freeze time so perfectly at one point, that he'll bring everything to an absolute standstill. Doing so will give him infinite energy in relation to the rest of the world, causing him to blow up.
[quote = "ONE"] Objects in frozen time conform to his time when touched (the roulette ball, the tire, the people in the crash, the martini glass (but not the martini, strangely
...
The tire he touched should have come into his own time and smacked him silly, but it didn't because he imparted a counter inertia on it and allowed it to obey gravity.
[/quote]
My interpretation is that things he touched didn't come into his frame of reference, but he could apply a force to them. I may need to watch the part with the tire again - I thought he touched it but it didn't move.
[quote = "ONE"] Objects in frozen time conform to his time when touched (the roulette ball, the tire, the people in the crash, the martini glass (but not the martini, strangely
...
The tire he touched should have come into his own time and smacked him silly, but it didn't because he imparted a counter inertia on it and allowed it to obey gravity.
My interpretation is that things he touched didn't come into his frame of reference, but he could apply a force to them. I may need to watch the part with the tire again - I thought he touched it but it didn't move.[/quote]
Didn't he just poke his finger through the middle of it? I didn't notice him actually touching it at all....
yeah, i just watched that part in ep7 again. You are right, he doesn't touch the tire at all.
I guess that throws the whole imparting counter inertia thing out the window.
What I wonder though, is how the heck did he deliver that food for charlie... without totally freaking out the people who ordered it. Wouldn't you be a bit scared if 5 plates of food suddenly appeared in front of you?
This is how I think he did it:
Scene: in the cafe with charlie
Charlie: How'd you do that, Hiro?
Hiro: I told you, I can stop time.
Charlie: Hold on, I have an order up.
Hiro goes back in time, to around the time Charlie was serving others coffee. He takes the food and delivers it, in real time, not frozen time. He then freezes time and places the order receipt back on the rack next to the kitchen. He somehow manages to do this while avoiding his past self. He hides outside until the moment that Charlie says she has an order. Then he freezes time the exact moment his past self says 'Already Done'. During this frozen time, he takes the order receipt and then steps into the space his past self occupied... so when Charlie turns back, he's still there.
This explanation demonstrates that Hiro can change the past, the original past was that the people were still waiting for their food. But Hiro went back in time, gave them their food and thus changed the course of time by allowing them to eat a few seconds earlier.
Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:50 pm Post subject: the rules of time and space
i think one of the biggest no no's in hiro's mind is two of him coming in contact. that's why he slammed down the phone when he realized that it was him on the the other end of it. He believes it would cause some sort of reaction and a pretty bad one at that. no i think the food delivery was strictly stopping time, though it seems odd that the customers didn't get freaked out.
I too wondered about the whole diner scene. How on earth could he have folded and strung-up a thousand paper cranes when he can only freeze time for 1 minute max?
On the topic of the cranes, do we have a definite time period that he can freeze? One minute?
I think most of the issues raised can be understood logically if we remember to think like Hiro. Time isn't a straight line like most people think. If it was a straight line, anything he did in the past would immediately alter the future. if you look at it more like a circle (as he describes it) you can understand that the future can influence the past as well. We tend to think of it as X is happening now, therefore Y must happen in the future. We don't think of it in terms that because X is happening now, Z MUST have happened in the past. X causes Y in the future, but has also caused Z in the past.
This would explain why future Hiro sends messages back in time, but couldn't save Charlie's life. Hiro went back to save Charlie and take her to China. I am not clear how exactly she died, but either way she was not in China at the time. This happens because to take her to China, he never would have had reason to go back and save her. On the other hand, Future Hiro can come back with messages for possibly a couple reasons. If his message doesn't change the actual reason for going back, then there is no paradox. Also, he may be bringing these messages back because Present Hiro knows about them. His reason for going back could simply be to fulfill a role he understands is necessary to the past. That second example may sound like a paradox in itself, but not if you look at time like a circle. Future Hiro gives the messages that Present Hiro at some point obtains. But, Future Hiro only has the message because he heard it years before. This leads one to think that there is no true originator of the message. However, if you look at the future as influencing the past, and not being completely dependent upon it, then the message comes from the future, without need to rationalize a past influence.
Finally, on the subject of stopping time, we need to understand a couple things. One, time isn't universal. It's relative. Things traveling at higher speed record a different time on a completely similar measuring device than things traveling at lower speeds. (Look up the readings of the Atomic Clock on land and when flown in a Supersonic Jet). Second, it's not some different dimension as if it existed somehow outside the universe we know. That said, Hiro liekly creates a pocket of relative time stoppage. The entire universe doesn't stop around him, just a localized area. (If the whole universe stopped, then the train wouldn't have been late, since it would have started up in time with the rest of the universe). Thus if he is only creating a pocket time stop, the universal influences of gravity, momentum, and conservation of energy can continue after the stoppage, as they can realign with the universe outside once he stops using his powers. If he is creating pockets, then there is no reason to need apply the physics of light speed, inertia, or applied force from him. Notice when he moves things, they stay in their original shape (like the cocktail in the glass). This would assume that the object as a whole is moving independently of the forces around it. He motions as though he is pushing someone or moving something himself, but he is really just applying his ability to alter the spacial orientation of an object and the forces (F=ma a is a function of time and space, something he can control) applied to it within his time pocket. This explains why objects and people remain staitionary while he moves them (the girl about to get hit by a bus, but resume their orignial motion afterwards.
The only thing is that Hiro has specifically said that he "can stop time comfortably for a minute." Nothing to do with relativistics, as we don't have different systems moving at different speeds. We just have Hiro, measuring passage of time during a freeze using the same seconds he always uses. For those around him, no time has passed because they are frozen. But for him, it has been a minute. Beyond that, I guess he gets headaches (seems common for power-users) or something of the like and can no longer maintain enough focus to keep up the time-freeze.
As for his power being localized and the rest of the universe operating as normal, totally unaffected by his power, this really makes little sense when you think about it. Are you trying to say that beyond a certain distance, time still moves? If so, why do people outside this radius do not realize that a certain region has suddenly stopped functioning? And what happens when this region unfreezes? Is it now a minute behind the rest of the universe, or does it speed up to remain synchronized? We have witnessed no such phenomena in the show to support such claims, rendering so-called "pocket time-freezes" nonexistent until proven otherwise through context.
The only thing is that Hiro has specifically said that he "can stop time comfortably for a minute." Nothing to do with relativistics, as we don't have different systems moving at different speeds. We just have Hiro, measuring passage of time during a freeze using the same seconds he always uses. For those around him, no time has passed because they are frozen. But for him, it has been a minute. Beyond that, I guess he gets headaches (seems common for power-users) or something of the like and can no longer maintain enough focus to keep up the time-freeze.
As for his power being localized and the rest of the universe operating as normal, totally unaffected by his power, this really makes little sense when you think about it. Are you trying to say that beyond a certain distance, time still moves? If so, why do people outside this radius do not realize that a certain region has suddenly stopped functioning? And what happens when this region unfreezes? Is it now a minute behind the rest of the universe, or does it speed up to remain synchronized? We have witnessed no such phenomena in the show to support such claims, rendering so-called "pocket time-freezes" nonexistent until proven otherwise through context.
If Hiro can stop time only for a local area, that explains how he got a train to be 14 seconds late (we didn't see it, but Hiro claimed to Ando that he had made the train late). It stopped, and the rest of the universe continued around it. If another train had approached on the same track while it was stopped, we would have to figure out whether the arriving train would collide with it or also have time stopped.
I think sometimes the writers are not completely rigorous with their special effects, and they don't always explain exactly how Hiro would have accomplished things by bending time. What we see as he teleports to New York City from Japan is a good example - the clock runs ahead, but Hiro and the people on the train appear to be experiencing a normal train ride. So is Hiro bringing them into the future with him and leaving the clock behind? (And then he goes on alone to NYC?) We're probably not supposed to think that.
Maybe to make one thousand cranes, Hiro stopped time many times. Maybe he had already made them and stashed them somewhere and only needed to stop time to hang them up.
The only thing is that Hiro has specifically said that he "can stop time comfortably for a minute." Nothing to do with relativity, as we don't have different systems moving at different speeds. We just have Hiro, measuring passage of time during a freeze using the same seconds he always uses. For those around him, no time has passed because they are frozen. But for him, it has been a minute. Beyond that, I guess he gets headaches (seems common for power-users) or something of the like and can no longer maintain enough focus to keep up the time-freeze.
As for his power being localized and the rest of the universe operating as normal, totally unaffected by his power, this really makes little sense when you think about it. Are you trying to say that beyond a certain distance, time still moves? If so, why do people outside this radius do not realize that a certain region has suddenly stopped functioning? And what happens when this region unfreezes? Is it now a minute behind the rest of the universe, or does it speed up to remain synchronized? We have witnessed no such phenomena in the show to support such claims, rendering so-called "pocket time-freezes" nonexistent until proven otherwise through context.
If Hiro can stop time only for a local area, that explains how he got a train to be 14 seconds late (we didn't see it, but Hiro claimed to Ando that he had made the train late). It stopped, and the rest of the universe continued around it. If another train had approached on the same track while it was stopped, we would have to figure out whether the arriving train would collide with it or also have time stopped.
I think sometimes the writers are not completely rigorous with their special effects, and they don't always explain exactly how Hiro would have accomplished things by bending time. What we see as he teleports to New York City from Japan is a good example - the clock runs ahead, but Hiro and the people on the train appear to be experiencing a normal train ride. So is Hiro bringing them into the future with him and leaving the clock behind? (And then he goes on alone to NYC?) We're probably not supposed to think that.
Maybe to make one thousand cranes, Hiro stopped time many times. Maybe he had already made them and stashed them somewhere and only needed to stop time to hang them up.
I'm sorry, but I still can't seem to swallow that Hiro's abilities ALWAYS have just localized effects. What if, in the case of the late train, Hiro also has the ability to deliberately target only a specific object or region with his ability, if he so chooses? If you recall, he was WISHING for the train to be LATE. So maybe he was able to only stop the train, and nothing else. Same effect as witnessed, only it's a function of a different cause.
I can go with it being localized only when he wants to or all the time, per the previous poster. I think the train being 14 seconds late supports the idea that Hiro can freeze time locally at least some of the time, unless there was a mundane cause.
i just think that it's cool that Asians are finally breaking the barrier of superhero-dom... In the past it was just Psylocke and she ain't even fully asian.
I saw that, and it was cool, but I'm not sure what was supposed to have happened. I think the bullet went backward in time, but the gun, Hope, and everything else just stopped. When time started moving forward again, Hope did not pull the trigger - as if from her point of view, she had just fired it.
This application of Hiro's power gives him a lot more options than just teleporting out of danger. Too bad he doesn't know yet that he can do it.
I'm glad Ando didn't die. It's sad that Hiro left him, and he may feel rejected, and going back to a desk job after being on a mission to save the world is going to be really, really dull. But I think Hiro did the right thing. I don't think Hiro could live with himself if Ando died on their mission.
