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Action Figure
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 Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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while i agree w/ everything else you said Tal, the Haitian not suppressing Nathan's ability isnt an inconsistency.
He didnt because Nate's a Petrelli, and the Haitian was working for a Petrelli. End of story. |
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murphster06
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Action Figure wrote: |
while i agree w/ everything else you said Tal, the Haitian not suppressing Nathan's ability isnt an inconsistency.
He didnt because Nate's a Petrelli, and the Haitian was working for a Petrelli. End of story. |
Ayep, HRG had no idea who he was and that he was even related to the company in some manner. The Haitian on the other hand, is way more involved then I think we know. |
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Talmidi Orha
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Action Figure wrote: |
while i agree w/ everything else you said Tal, the Haitian not suppressing Nathan's ability isnt an inconsistency.
He didnt because Nate's a Petrelli, and the Haitian was working for a Petrelli. End of story. |
So is Peter. The Haitian locked him in a box and shipped him to Ireland on Company orders. He definitely is playing both sides, but his selective approach to Petrelli captivity (Nathan, no; Peter, yes) and his on-again-off-again relationship with the Company (he was in, then out last season; in and then out again this season), it's certainly enough to make one scratch his or her head.
Besides, wouldn't HRG be like, "WTF is your problem, Haitian?! Why did you just let him fly away?!" Then he would have to explain it to Thompson as well. Wash away Nathan's escape with Petrelli loyalty and it raises more read flags.
Also, after shooting HRG, erasing his memory, and helping Claire escape, why would the Company take the Haitian back (as we see they did in "Four Months Ago")? HRG has since been on a rampage that took Ivan's life and has involved the uncovering and then destroying of Isaac's lost series of paintings. They no he means to "bring down the Company." Mohinder and Niki now have to go after Claire because the company doesn't know where exactly she might be. This is all the Haitian's fault. How can they take him back? I guess you could postulate that maybe because Angela and Linderman were actually working together all along, but this in turn creates more problems. One example: Why would Linderman pursue Claire or Nathan if Angela spends her time helping fight against that pursuit?
'Tis a leaky boat we're on, fellas. |
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sami
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Talmidi Orha wrote: |
So is Peter. The Haitian locked him in a box and shipped him to Ireland on Company orders. |
I didn't get that impression at all.. I thought the Haitian sent Peter away on his own initiative in the only way he could think up on the spur of the moment, in direct violation of his orders from the Company..
And likely his rebellion earned him a virus shot and a trip to Haiti.
Why Bob sent Mohinder to go save him after or whether the Haitian gave himself the shot and ran, may be open issues.
My theory is the Haitian wanted out of the game and was willing to risk his life with the shot and let judgment come from a higher power as we saw him tell Mohinder. |
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Talmidi Orha
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| sami wrote: |
| Talmidi Orha wrote: |
So is Peter. The Haitian locked him in a box and shipped him to Ireland on Company orders. |
I didn't get that impression at all.. I thought the Haitian sent Peter away on his own initiative in the only way he could think up on the spur of the moment, in direct violation of his orders from the Company..
And likely his rebellion earned him a virus shot and a trip to Haiti.
Why Bob sent Mohinder to go save him after or whether the Haitian gave himself the shot and ran, may be open issues.
My theory is the Haitian wanted out of the game and was willing to risk his life with the shot and let judgment come from a higher power as we saw him tell Mohinder. |
Bob knew where Peter was, and so did Elle. They sent him there on purpose. It seemed to me that he was placed there for later recovery, and the mind-wipe was a precautionary measure. They knew exactly where the box was going and were surprised that Peter had escaped. They were tracking him.
The Haitian was already "out of the game" when the Company realized what he did to help Claire escape and cover his tracks by erasing Bennett's memory. He obviously joined up again. This in and of itself is confusing, since "Company Man" taught us that if you try to hide someone from the Company, the punishment is death (presumably by gunfire).
If the Company intended to punish the Haitian by giving him the virus, why would they send Mohinder after him to give him the cure? Also, remember that Mohinder did not yet work for the Company during the time in which Peter was recaptured and shipped overseas. After receiving the cure (sent by the Company), the Haitian returns to working with Bennett, not to working with the Company.
For your theory to work, the Haitian would have hidden Peter FROM the Company, then gotten the virus as a punishment (death?), only to have the Company then send Mohinder to cure him. He then Bennett again to fight AGAINST the Company, while they somehow unravel the ruse for which they infected him and locating Peter in Ireland. Why would the Haitian risk his life for such a crappy plan? He certainly didn't fool the company if he planned to hide Peter since they knew exactly where his crate was sent. Peter got lucky being freed by the Irish criminals, otherwise Elle would have recovered him from the crate, the first place she checked.
More simply: Why give him the Haitian the virus at all if you're just gonna turn around and cure it? Also: why cure him of something YOU did when you did it to PREVENT rebellion if you know that as soon as he's healthy, he'll rebel again? Because they hope he'll return to the Company and be trustworthy? Unlikely.
Also, if you read the GN, they show that Mohinder had a hidden motive in his visit with the Haitian: he gave him info from Bennett before intentionally allowing the Haitian to wipe his memory.
The "judgment" that Haitian spoke of has to do with his father's death and the entire village he unintentionally mind-wiped as a child. This is also found in the GN. |
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Hercules67
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Talmidi Orha wrote: |
| If the Company intended to punish the Haitian by giving him the virus, why would they send Mohinder after him to give him the cure? Also, remember that Mohinder did not yet work for the Company during the time in which Peter was recaptured and shipped overseas. After receiving the cure (sent by the Company), the Haitian returns to working with Bennett, not to working with the Company. |
Actually, there is one way this works, that I have previously theorized about.
Wheels within wheels. The company is older than the Haitian and HRG and Mohinder. They're steeped in espionage. Maybe they set-up the whole escape in this sense. With Thompson and Linderman gone, Bob wants the Haitian as a valuable asset. The Haitian reports where he send Peter (he has bought time for Peter by doing this). Then HRG and Mohinder are SET-UP so that HRG and Claire can come out of hiding.
For this to be true, drawing # 8 has to be a fake (that scene in Isaac's Loft now converted into a lab is highly suspicious). In effect, the company set this up in order to get the Haitian to work with HRG.
This only makes sense if the outcome it achieves is desirable to Bob. What is that outcome? Well of course the capture of Claire. We shall see if that happens.
And yes, the Haitian might have ALLOWED himself to be injected, on purpose, for this to work. |
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Talmidi Orha
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Hercules67 wrote: |
| Talmidi Orha wrote: |
| If the Company intended to punish the Haitian by giving him the virus, why would they send Mohinder after him to give him the cure? Also, remember that Mohinder did not yet work for the Company during the time in which Peter was recaptured and shipped overseas. After receiving the cure (sent by the Company), the Haitian returns to working with Bennett, not to working with the Company. |
Actually, there is one way this works, that I have previously theorized about.
Wheels within wheels. The company is older than the Haitian and HRG and Mohinder. They're steeped in espionage. Maybe they set-up the whole escape in this sense. With Thompson and Linderman gone, Bob wants the Haitian as a valuable asset. The Haitian reports where he send Peter (he has bought time for Peter by doing this). Then HRG and Mohinder are SET-UP so that HRG and Claire can come out of hiding.
For this to be true, drawing # 8 has to be a fake (that scene in Isaac's Loft now converted into a lab is highly suspicious). In effect, the company set this up in order to get the Haitian to work with HRG.
This only makes sense if the outcome it achieves is desirable to Bob. What is that outcome? Well of course the capture of Claire. We shall see if that happens.
And yes, the Haitian might have ALLOWED himself to be injected, on purpose, for this to work. |
OK, fine. But this is one of those explanations where to explain something simple in the show, a huge and weird fan-constructed theory has to be used as a keystone. I respond to it most specifically at the end of this post.
The Haitian and Elle were chasing Peter and Adam together. What does the Haitian say to Elle? "Whoops. He escaped even without any of his powers. That's one mad-clever, mad-fast hospice nurse."
And why, then, not just LET Peter escape instead of erasing his memory and tossing him in a trunk to Ireland? It left him powerless, confused, and vulnerable, and further down the road led him to re-partner with the evil Adam Monroe, who clearly has NO ONE's best interests in mind other than his own.
My guess? Kring doesn't really know what he's doing with the Haitian. That's why he's so all over the place in terms of powers and loyalties. One moment he works for the Company. The next he's quit and is on the run. This, of course, happens twice in two seasons (getting back to the plot rehashing point). One moment he erases the memory of an entire village (GN) and the next he can't screw with your memory without touching his hand to your head. One moment he doesn't block someone's power he's trying to catch (Nathan), and the next he blocks the power of someone he doesn't even know is there (Parkman). And the list goes on. Maybe there's some big reveal, but most likely it's a big case of the "Whoopsies!" They like his power, so they insert him to the plotline at all costs. After all, it's convenient to have people just forget everything all the time. It's a reset button in case the plot gets to convoluted. See: Alias.
Also, am I clear on this point? You're saying that the Haitian is secretly working for the Company, whether he knows it or not?
Why would Bob orchestrate an escape that in effect:
1. allowed Peter to escape and rejoin with Adam Monroe?
2. allowed the Haitian to rejoin with Bennett in order to take down the company?
3. allowed Ivan to be murdered and Isaac's paintings to be photographed and destroyed?
Just to get Claire's blood? Just to get revenge on HRG? Whaaaaaaa...?! |
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murphster06
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| sami wrote: |
| Talmidi Orha wrote: |
So is Peter. The Haitian locked him in a box and shipped him to Ireland on Company orders. |
I didn't get that impression at all.. I thought the Haitian sent Peter away on his own initiative in the only way he could think up on the spur of the moment, in direct violation of his orders from the Company..
And likely his rebellion earned him a virus shot and a trip to Haiti.
Why Bob sent Mohinder to go save him after or whether the Haitian gave himself the shot and ran, may be open issues.
My theory is the Haitian wanted out of the game and was willing to risk his life with the shot and let judgment come from a higher power as we saw him tell Mohinder. |
The shots that we know of contain the altered virus that Mohinder's blood is worthless to. It is my belief that being a religous person as that's how he was raised, the Haitian had a particular outlook on him contracting the disease, but I'll assume that it was naturally caused. Bob sent Mohinder to him because of his usefulness still the company, nothing more.
In particular to what he did to Peter, I viewed it as he knew a good way to help him with his powers and controlling and it was to mindwipe him and give him a clear head. At least for a while it worked and probaly will help him out controlling his powers. Now that he has his memory back, I'm guessing Peter will finally kick some tail bigtime  |
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Maxx Hitpoints
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: Oh Boy, yet another plot hole... |
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So, according to this episode, Peter was put in the crate 3 weeks ago...no guarantee the crate went out on a boat that day, but reguardless; sorry gang, but it takes at least 4 weeks for a ship to make that cruise across the Atlantic...so if things were accurate, Peter is still in the crate. Another question, how did he go the 3/4 weeks without food or water? Hmmm, guess he is immortal. I have an idea, let's do a "Dallas"...next week, HRG walks out of the shower and tells Sandra this convoluted mess was just a dream.
I'm SOOOOOO hoping these last 3 weeks salvage a viciously choppy 2nd season... |
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mattk25
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| My take on the situation is that the Haitian sent Peter to Ireland on his own accord. Then the picture gets really fuzzy. If you remember the Haitian wipes Mohinder's memory after he heals him and then Bob comes down to Haiti. I think it was to be implied that Mohinder allowed the Haitian to do this so he could rejoin Bennett and Mohinder's cover with the Company would remain. There does seem to be some question as to how the Haitian got the virus, and the timing of him sending Peter to Ireland and then contracting the virus and becoming ill. |
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Talmidi Orha
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| mattk25 wrote: |
| My take on the situation is that the Haitian sent Peter to Ireland on his own accord. Then the picture gets really fuzzy. If you remember the Haitian wipes Mohinder's memory after he heals him and then Bob comes down to Haiti. I think it was to be implied that Mohinder allowed the Haitian to do this so he could rejoin Bennett and Mohinder's cover with the Company would remain. There does seem to be some question as to how the Haitian got the virus, and the timing of him sending Peter to Ireland and then contracting the virus and becoming ill. |
I do not agree that the Haitian sent Peter away in defiance of the Company, but you are correct about the Haitian, Mohinder, and HRG. This was explained in a recent graphic novel in which the Haitian and Mohinder's discussion continues long after he reveals he's there from the company and they discuss wiping Mohinder to preserve his cover. |
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HeroAddict
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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My question is if Bob is such a mistro of the orchestra of drama as everyone believes, why wouldn't he just make Molly look for Claire?
I mean, it seems like a WHOLE LOT of unnecessary trouble to find Claire if all these stories are actually in pursuit to finding Claire.
Grab a gun, stick it to Matt's head and say, "FIND CLAIRE BENNET OR I'LL KILL MATT"
Molly already worked with the company for a while so I doubt it'd be weird to find somebody on the companies command. I agree there are some plot holes, but I am banking on the writers creating a nicely threaded ending that ties everything together. |
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Hercules67
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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No. The Haitian send Peter to Ireland in accordance to with Bob's instructions. They had no way of knowing that his memory will return and that Peter will travel to the future, meet-up with his mom, do the whole Montreal painting and finally hook-up with Adam/Kensei again. Elle went to Ireland expecting to find Peter. Basically they put it him in that container to hide him for a bit. No biggie.
The Haitian is your traditional double and triple agent. He works for multiple parties. He has divided loyalties. That is why we're all confused as to his motives. Deep in his core he tries to do the right thing, but he makes mistakes. He will pay for the mistakes, because in the end he will not be able to protect Claire from the Company one of the charges given to him by Angela.
On the other hand Mohinder has been duped by the company by the start. That's plain to see.
As for a fan constructed theory -- well, if I what I outlined in my last two posts is my theory AND NOT what is really happening, then this show REALLY SUCKS this year, and I really will stop watching it..... |
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karinbouttheheroes
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Maya & Alej.-I liked seeing what happened, to start them running. I DO wish that we had more time to see there story (possibly could be better, if we werent rushed?) It's strange that in the "present day" M&A are so close, and best friends, but in this episode, they didnt seem very close. If so, A would've trusted M and what she was trying to tell him about his girl.
Peter & Adam-I LOVE anything about Peter. I even liked when he was in Ireland. (SORRY). I think that he allowed the company to keep him locked up/drugged up, because he was scarred that he would hurt people with his powers, if not! I think that we will find out that Adam is Peter's father, that is why Peter is taking so much stock in what Adam says. (Just my opinion)
Sylar???- I was VERY disappointed that they didnt tell us what happened with him! We were led to believe that they would answer those ?'s.....but nothing? C'mon! I really want to know how they took his powers away!
Elle-I LOVE this chick! I like that she is so "In your face" and upfront. I know some people didnt like the fact that she was so flirty, but I think that feeds into her charachter on the show! She has grown up (basically) in the company, so she is obviously very spoiled and hasnt spent much time around normal people. So, when she meets a new person, they are more like an object/toy to her. She wants to touch, experience, and play with them! (Escpescially if they have a power)
Claire/HRG/Mom/Lyle????- I was disappointed in the fact that we didnt get any info on them also!
HOWEVER-all in all, this was still an AWESOME episode! (I try not to use the word awesome-but nothing else came to mind!) I wish this STRIKE wasnt going on, then we possibly could have gotten more answers! |
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Talmidi Orha
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| Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| HeroAddict wrote: |
My question is if Bob is such a mistro of the orchestra of drama as everyone believes, why wouldn't he just make Molly look for Claire?
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