I don't think they wanted to kill him by taking his powers away from him while he was 200' in the air. The last thing they needed to do was try to cover up the death of a well known wealthy man.
Nathan was standing right in front of the Haitian before he took off after being pursued by him and Bennett. In a similar pursuit between the Haitian and Peter in this episode, Peter couldn't fly or use powers because of the Haitian's presence. Nathan shouldn't have been able to fly as the Haitian's powers would have already been in effect. We've seen the effect happen even unintentionally and from over 100 ft. away back when Parkman tried to spy on Bennett in Volume 1. It has nothing to do with rich men falling 200 feet and everything to do with sloppy writing.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: Not so fast...
Remember that the Company is not (or was not at that time) working with the Petrelli group...keep in mind the Haitians loyalties lie (for some reason) with Angela, and since she had a clear agenda for Nathan, she very likely gave the Haitain orders to let Nathan go...remember we have established that he has selective powers, and at that stage of the game, Angela and the inner circle had a clear different agenda for him, so it made sense to let him go...
I too want to applaud Talmidi's well thought out post.
But I wanted to add some thoughts and observations as well and take off from where he stopped.
This year we were promised the story in "Volume 2: Generations" of the first or original band of Heroes. Those who first discovered they had extraordinary powers and what they did with those powers. We were promised a grand sweeping epic that would show that what our "Heroes" went through last year was just a precursor for battles yet to come, and other battles have been fought in the past, that there are wheels within wheels, that there is this struggle among these "Heroes" who think of themselves as Gods. And while we have seen a sense of this struggle, because some of this has leaked through, all that has been left of all these original ideas we were promised:
Bob the alchemist.
Maury the nightmare man.
Kensei/Adam the immortal.
So Bob is some accountant whose loyalties cannot be fathomed yet. Maury was just a pawn who got defeated within 3 episodes of being introduced. And Kensei -- they wasted Kensei/Adam in Japan for a story arc that should have taken no more than 1 or two episodes to tell.
And we still don't know anything about Arthur Petrelli or Linderman or Angela or any of the rest of them.
Yeah, we love our current cast of "Heroes". Sure, I can come to enjoy Monica as St. Joan of New Orleans. But what is the point of a de-powered Sylar? So that you can "hook him up" with Maya and Alejandro? And all the other excellent points that Talmidi made...!
So, a little more Generations would have been great, especially if they had not introduced all these other CURRENT GENERATION "Heroes". Instead we get recycled fodder from last year with no advancement in character development. That's what hurts the most. NONE of the characters have developed at all since the season started. I saw character development in D.L. .... But Oh! they just killed him! THAT'S IT! Name me another character that's grown since last season... anyone?
So the show has failed us in what they promised, AND in what a good character drama should do.
So far the character with the most growth (from season 1) is Matt. Finally becoming a cop, finding out about his father, and then bringing his powers to a new level is a pretty good enhancement to his storyline. Personally I never expected large character growth in this volume. That's what all season 1's are for. I took this volume with the thought that most of the characters we know will have little growth. The newer characters (Bob/Elle/Maya&Alejandro/Monica) will have the greatest amount of growth shown and the season will show how they will be involved. My take is Volume 3 will enhance all of the characters storylines and be an awesome season. (this was the same way I felt about Lost, s1 great, s2 so-so, s3, saweeeeet! )
I don't think they wanted to kill him by taking his powers away from him while he was 200' in the air. The last thing they needed to do was try to cover up the death of a well known wealthy man.
Nathan was standing right in front of the Haitian before he took off after being pursued by him and Bennett. In a similar pursuit between the Haitian and Peter in this episode, Peter couldn't fly or use powers because of the Haitian's presence. Nathan shouldn't have been able to fly as the Haitian's powers would have already been in effect. We've seen the effect happen even unintentionally and from over 100 ft. away back when Parkman tried to spy on Bennett in Volume 1. It has nothing to do with rich men falling 200 feet and everything to do with sloppy writing.
I definitley see where your coming from, but lets just say that maybe the Haitian and Bennett were caught off guard.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Not so fast...
Maxx Hitpoints wrote:
Remember that the Company is not (or was not at that time) working with the Petrelli group...keep in mind the Haitians loyalties lie (for some reason) with Angela, and since she had a clear agenda for Nathan, she very likely gave the Haitain orders to let Nathan go...remember we have established that he has selective powers, and at that stage of the game, Angela and the inner circle had a clear different agenda for him, so it made sense to let him go...
I'd love to go with this, but I'm not sure I agree. Linderman and Angela Petrelli were co-conspirators in the bombing of NYC, despite the appearance that they were actually at odds with one another. This explains why the Haitian is seen on both sides. Working with Bennett for the company, working with Angela against it, then working for it with Elle before now again working against it with Bennett.
Also: anytime it takes a paragraph to explain away something in the series that seems wrong, it's probably a sign that the writing is faltering. Who knows. Maybe you're right about the Haitian wanting Nathan to escape, but this issue is one of many among the sea of inconsistencies.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Not so fast...
I find all these attempts at trying to find plot holes a terrible way to enjoy something. How can you watch transformers, or spiderman, or really anything that suspends reality if you're going to nit pick.
Trying to nitpick at the way the Haitain's power works fro example is a bit ridiculous. In fact, I've found some of these so called inconsistencies to enhance the show. Did the Haitain choose to let Nathan fly off because he was under the influence from Angela? Can he sense abilities, and can he therefore suppress them based on sensing rather than seeing? DL's death, was in fact dramatic, the expression on Nikki's face at the senseless death of her husband due to her actions was really a strong moment. Sure he could phase, but he was caught off guard because he was walking out in such a bouyant mood.
And worst of all to me, is people's problem with Peter. He has a huge file cabinet of abilities, but at present is a jack-of-all-trades, master of none. Let's face it, after melting his brother's face he was going into a depression of sorts, and essentially checking himself into a clinic. He was vulnerable, after living in fear of killing so many people, then ending up likely killing his hero (his brother) he was susceptible, wanted a way out, looking for a place to run. I thought the writers treatment of his mental state after his events was excellent.
I think people constantly want answers, but a lot of the enjoyment I get is fitting your own answers into situations.
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Not so fast...
the voice of reason wrote:
I find all these attempts at trying to find plot holes a terrible way to enjoy something. How can you watch transformers, or spiderman, or really anything that suspends reality if you're going to nit pick.
Trying to nitpick at the way the Haitain's power works fro example is a bit ridiculous. In fact, I've found some of these so called inconsistencies to enhance the show. Did the Haitain choose to let Nathan fly off because he was under the influence from Angela? Can he sense abilities, and can he therefore suppress them based on sensing rather than seeing? DL's death, was in fact dramatic, the expression on Nikki's face at the senseless death of her husband due to her actions was really a strong moment. Sure he could phase, but he was caught off guard because he was walking out in such a bouyant mood.
And worst of all to me, is people's problem with Peter. He has a huge file cabinet of abilities, but at present is a jack-of-all-trades, master of none. Let's face it, after melting his brother's face he was going into a depression of sorts, and essentially checking himself into a clinic. He was vulnerable, after living in fear of killing so many people, then ending up likely killing his hero (his brother) he was susceptible, wanted a way out, looking for a place to run. I thought the writers treatment of his mental state after his events was excellent.
I think people constantly want answers, but a lot of the enjoyment I get is fitting your own answers into situations.
No one has said that the things you point out ARE NOT THERE. They are. And I have enjoyed them, along with all the other fans of HEROES on this forum.
The problem comes when a show with such high expectations doesn't move forward. I expect, this is similar to what happened to "Lost". It had a great first season, and then a lot of people said that it lost it's way in the 2nd. The build-up of the 3rd season was tremendous, and by the end it blew me away.
"Heroes" has mistepped this year. Unfortunately, with the Writer's strike they might not be able to recover, because the earliest we'll see them come out of this conundrum is next year around this time. Does that make sense?
And while what you state is true, it is also true, that most of this season's story line feels contrived and a repeat of what we saw last year. But there will always be differences of opinion on how you see the story going. Let's just agree to disagree, and continue watching....
Wow. This episode was obviously pretty good, or you wouldn't all be so pissed, lol. I do have one question though: Will Peter have the Hatian's power now? I wonder if maybe the Hatian having "blocked" him, or whatever might've prevented Pete's gaining it, but how much exposure to the person does Peter have to have to absorb their ability? Would that split second before he was "blocked" have been enough time? Does the Hatian have to concentrate on one individual, or is it more of an area of effect kind of deal?
All this being said, I just watch this show to tune out and have fun these days. Any inkling I had that it might surpass LOST in quality has been squashed by Claire's acting, West and Sylar's so-what presence, and generally sloppy story writing. The GN series actually seems to be more coherent, and sometimes more interesting, which is good for the GN, but bad for the show.
All this being said, I just watch this show to watch Mr. Bennett finally get killed. Man I hate that guy.
I do have one question though: Will Peter have the Hatian's power now?
I suspect unless the Haitain has blocked Peter 100% of the time when they were in the vicinity of each other, then Peter has it. If he does, could he block the Haitain's blocking? Oh the conundrum.
Yeah, and what happens if they both try to block one another's power at the same time? Like when Parkman and Peter were both reading one another and got the feedback (or whatever)? Who knows, maybe they mindwipe one another, lol.
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Not so fast...
the voice of reason wrote:
I find all these attempts at trying to find plot holes a terrible way to enjoy something. How can you watch transformers, or spiderman, or really anything that suspends reality if you're going to nit pick.
Trying to nitpick at the way the Haitain's power works fro example is a bit ridiculous. In fact, I've found some of these so called inconsistencies to enhance the show. Did the Haitain choose to let Nathan fly off because he was under the influence from Angela? Can he sense abilities, and can he therefore suppress them based on sensing rather than seeing? DL's death, was in fact dramatic, the expression on Nikki's face at the senseless death of her husband due to her actions was really a strong moment. Sure he could phase, but he was caught off guard because he was walking out in such a bouyant mood.
And worst of all to me, is people's problem with Peter. He has a huge file cabinet of abilities, but at present is a jack-of-all-trades, master of none. Let's face it, after melting his brother's face he was going into a depression of sorts, and essentially checking himself into a clinic. He was vulnerable, after living in fear of killing so many people, then ending up likely killing his hero (his brother) he was susceptible, wanted a way out, looking for a place to run. I thought the writers treatment of his mental state after his events was excellent.
I think people constantly want answers, but a lot of the enjoyment I get is fitting your own answers into situations.
We're not really "trying to find plot holes." I don't watch this show thinking, "Gee, how can I hate one of my favorite shows and get all high and mighty this week?"
Guys, I watch LOST and I don't constantly pick that apart. The long story arcs and singular, unified story (as well as the writer's tendency to finally pay things off when the fanbase is truly squirming) instills me with a sense of trust in the writers that I have lost, temporarily I hope, for Heroes.
These "plot holes" jump out at me. Outright fanboy/girlism for a show can lead to blinders, allowing us to cruise past the show's problems and defend it even if it has started to spiral.
Don't get me wrong: I LOVE HEROES. However, these plot holes and inconsistencies jump out at me in nearly every episode starting with this second volume. Also, you can try to construct some sort of internal, silly explanations for all these inconsistencies (i.e. maybe the Haitian didn't want to hurt a rich man like Nathan), but there is still no denying the other overarching point: the main plotlines of Volume 2 are by and large a rehash of the first volume. Again, for the sake of clarity, remember these?:
1. Niki struggles with a split personality, leading to D.L. getting shot
2. Claire is "different" and must overcome the cruel, popular girl in order to be an adored cheerleader.
3. Isaac's paintings of the future leave clues to an imminent disaster.
4. An accidental jump through time reveals a terrible future.
5. A confused Peter (re)discovers he has powers, and then must learn to control them.
6. Heroes are murdered one by one by a shadowy, unseen threat.
That's six major plot points that have not really developed in this season, but instead it's like the producers hit the reset button and just wrote the story over again, only this time it's plodding and poorly executed.
I'm not nitpicking or digging for inconsistencies; I'm just watching the show. I can't pretend it's as good as it was, because it isn't. I also can't pretend I think it's all leading to something brilliant, because this show is not like LOST and there is no one unifying story behind all of this. It's a bunch of related, but ultimately separate, story arcs about people with super powers.
I'm not trying to sound like a jerk or degrade anyone for liking Volume 2. I'm merely trying to articulately point out the exact causes of the decreased viewership of the show and the rising discontent even among those of us who were hardcore enough as fans to join this forum.
So please, please don't respond with:
1. You're just mad that Kring didn't prove your theory right.
2. You just don't get the plot.
3. You're just mad because the last episode was so good. (<--?!)
I think these next few will be better, but some of the problems with Volume 2 (plot rehash, power problems) won't go away no matter where to plot goes next. I do, however, believe that Kring can pick up the pieces, learn from his mistakes, and get the show back on track. Let's hope so.
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I took this volume with the thought that most of the characters we know will have little growth. The newer characters (Bob/Elle/Maya&Alejandro/Monica) will have the greatest amount of growth shown and the season will show how they will be involved. My take is Volume 3 will enhance all of the characters storylines and be an awesome season. (this was the same way I felt about Lost, s1 great, s2 so-so, s3, saweeeeet! 
