Actually Squeaker and Talmidi that's what detracts from the show. They present some things as "fate accompli", yet they do things different when given the chance.
What saves them? The characters! And the area where they have hurt the most this year is character development because of the introduction of so many new characters.
I am hoping the writing picks-up in Episodes 9, 10 and 11. It will be sad if it does and then we go to a long hiatus. That, I think will hurt the show.
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: Adam Good or Evil
Quote:
Is Adam a good guy ? What do you think about it ?
I personally think he might be a combination of both, he and Claire are the key to stopping the virus. He might still be hot with Hiro but 400 years is a long time to hold a grudge especially when you have been locked up for 30. I really think Bob is the evil one here although we are sometimes led to believe he just might not be.
One thing I always wondered when we first saw his power was if claire was his descendant?
Well I definitely agree with many of the points brought up about this episode...I still have my negatives.
Like...
The Haitian chases Peter, takes his memory and locks him in a storage bin....The next time we see the Haitian is in EP2, after MOH cures him in Haiti.
So he (the Haitian) helps the company...gets the virus within...leaves the company and goes back to Haiti...and then MOH cures him on behalf of the company? what?
That made no sense, because the company is the one that owns the virus....why do that to him?
No Sylar...wierd. And that would have also been hard to explain. So the company saves Sylar...fixes him...injects the virus...throws him into mexico with candance with 24 observation.....But they lock away Peter and Adam within the company's building?
Odd
Yeah, I'm just not digging the show right now because the writers seem to be thinking one step ahead while their viewers think three steps ahead. There is an undeniably vast amount of inconsistency relative to powers on this show.
Also, D.L. may be a slow learner, but the man got himself shot 3 times in one year. Furthermore, he uses his powers only when it's least necessary.
Since D.L. was running from the cops for so long, and since he's been shot 3 times otherwise, I'm surprised that bullet-magnet didn't die off before he even appeared on the show.
Yeah, I think DL could have been bigger than where they went with him.
Look I am no writer, but this is really how I would have ran S2.
-EP1-Start with 4-months ago (of course w a new title). Start right were u left off and really expand on Maya and Alejandro. Sylar with them I think adds a real good kick of evil.
-EP2-Have the Haitian return to the company, since last we saw him with MAMA Patrelli. Have Elle (thats fine). But make it more of a Peter Kidnapping (like this ep 4-mo). Also keep the line of NIKKI seeking help, but as a runaway- DL and MICAH just find her gone w no reason.
-EP3-Issacs paintings are still ludicrous to me. But we never knew of Isaacs family, so maybe (following the 12-photo) we could expand and meet Isaacs dad-who umm painted 8 future paintings)
-EP4-MOh is deep inside the company. While Elle and the Haitian kidnap Peter (exaclty how u saw in 4-months), MOH is sent to meet Isaacs dad w BOB, and learns of HRGs death. He then tells HRG. Which leads to a conv abt Peter and then a plan for a Peter rescue.
-EP5-HRG cant locate claude, and wants to enter the company silently, which leads to a search for DL.DL enters, gets Peter and Adam and phases out which leads to a company alarm-choas-(and possible standoffs). Peter breaks from the pack (DL,ADAM) and umm travels to the future-accidentally. Here is where he sees what the company has done. This EP could have a good ending of DL seeing Nikki (w new personality) as a company employee w/MOH.
-EP6 could have Peter meeting Future Hiro, since he never met future Hiro...in the Future. Obviously you could have it go along the line of....The virus still happened, and Peter saying it wasnt a virus...it was a bomb...Fut HIRO- what bomb?
EP7- Peter returns, meets up with Adam and now starts on taking down the Company. He explains who he saw to ADAM which pursuades him to talk Peter into knocking off HIRO as well.
-Really i could keep going, But one thing IRKS me...
How did Peter know he could Phase. I mean we saw this 4-months ago EP, and I do not see DL and Peter interact at ALL. Sure DL was in Kirby Plaza, but he was no where near Peter..IN fact he was at the entrance of the building while Peter was in the center of the plaza at the fountain. So what is his distance? 30 feet, 40 feet, 1 mile? and didn't claude teach him that when he thinks of that person, he can do their power. So all those training EP w claude are washed out now. Peter had no idea what DL could do, but Adam did? I think they needed to have Peter interact or meet DL.
I would also keep the other things...especially MATTS dad....and MATT/Nathan combo.
Umm remove West.
And I think a GOOD EP would be Claire saving HRG. through a fire, or a barrage of bullets...ie company standoff. Something BIG w claire.....
I gotta say, I agree a little with Talmidi and Spark. Especially about DL. You'd think he'd have his power on when the guy approached. It wasn't like he was going to give DL a handshake.
Now, yes there are some plotholes, every series is gonna have them. But in terms of character...I don't see development. There are things I can disregard about the show, even if it hasn't been fully explained for sake that the show has to keep moving (Peter's Absorption)/Matt being able to "defeat" his father, even though his father had years to master the power and Matt just learned he could do it)...but when characters make the same mistakes, it's annoying at times.
Nikki talks about all she ever did was for her family. To keep them together. Yet, she puts her family in danger (yet again), when she stops taking her pills and turns into (Jeannie was it?)
Peter (my fav character) seems to still just trust anyone he talks to. He's still naive. He's got his memory back, (and Matt's mind reading, so potential enemies shouldn't be able to double cross him easily) so I hope they don' keep him like that. I hope he questions Adam's motives.
Claire disobeying HRG when calling attention could get her family killed (as far as she knows at least) I mean, she's seen two men take her family hostage, New York almost be destroyed, and her father take a bullet so that she stays safe.
But no....West is so cute none of that matters.You'd think after homecoming when Sylar tried to kill her, she'd ease up a little.
the last episode was good, and most everyone i know who watched it thought so.
which means either
a) they are wrong
b) you are wrong.
now, being that people like to be entertained and this entertained them, id say that you are wrong.
why is this?
someone said its like the heroes writers are steps behind the viewers. sorry, but they are the WRITERS.... which means it goes the way they want it to. just because you have a grand theory, and you have an idea about how you think it should go, doesnt mean it has to go that way.
you're getting annoyed by it not doing what you hoped itd do, then stop thinking about it so damn much and just enjoy it.
i like conjecture and spoilers, lets me get a bit excited about episodes, and for that, i love this forum. if theres a question i want to ask, or a theory i have, i like to be able to discuss it, but if im wrong, then im not going to complain about it.
im disappointed with how DL died, but thems the breaks. these people are not infalliable.. and i think a benefit it it gives forward movement for micahs story.. who i think is a great character. add some more tragedy to his life and im sure he'll become very interesting. 'specially if niki gets killed
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: Sorry Swetal...
Despite everyone's fervent wish that last week was a great episode, the horrendous plot hole and assinine plot turns that the writers chose were not worthy of the greatness of this show.
1. DL deserved a much better death; so weak I could puke.
2. The whole Nikki plot reeks of "I got nothing, let's split her personality again"
3. The inconsistencies with the Haitian are becoming laughable.
4. Worst of all, you tease all week that the Syler questions would be answered, and they were ignored. TERRIBLE!
5. And please writers, make Peter at least tough enough to be a real hero, not a weak backboned quitter that you tried to hoist on us this week? He's a god damn GOD, after all.
The next time we see the Haitian is in EP2, after MOH cures him in Haiti.
So he (the Haitian) helps the company...gets the virus within...leaves the company and goes back to Haiti...and then MOH cures him on behalf of the company? what?
That made no sense, because the company is the one that owns the virus....why do that to him?
I agree with you on this. Let's go thru a couple of scenario's. One, the company injected the Haitian with the virus because they found out he helped Peter escape to Ireland. This makes sense until you consider that they then sent Mohinder to cure him.
Two, it was all a setup. Bob sent Mohinder to cure the Haitian, but he really wasn't sick and the Haitian wanted to see where Mohinder's loyalties are. This doesn't make sense for a few reasons. One, the Haitian seems to be with HRG but also with other so we really don't know where his loyalties are. Two, Bob didn't say anything to Mohinder when he confessed he'd been working with HRG to bring down the company.
Three, the writers just messed up! How could the Haitian be with the company one day in perfect health, send Peter away to Ireland and then very shortly thereafter be deathly ill in Haiti? I think they messed up. If not they need to explain somethings because it doesn't make any sense at all. In fact it kinda of disputes itself!
the last episode was good, and most everyone i know who watched it thought so.
which means either
a) they are wrong
b) you are wrong.
now, being that people like to be entertained and this entertained them, id say that you are wrong.
why is this?
someone said its like the heroes writers are steps behind the viewers. sorry, but they are the WRITERS.... which means it goes the way they want it to. just because you have a grand theory, and you have an idea about how you think it should go, doesnt mean it has to go that way.
you're getting annoyed by it not doing what you hoped itd do, then stop thinking about it so damn much and just enjoy it.
i like conjecture and spoilers, lets me get a bit excited about episodes, and for that, i love this forum. if theres a question i want to ask, or a theory i have, i like to be able to discuss it, but if im wrong, then im not going to complain about it.
im disappointed with how DL died, but thems the breaks. these people are not infalliable.. and i think a benefit it it gives forward movement for micahs story.. who i think is a great character. add some more tragedy to his life and im sure he'll become very interesting. 'specially if niki gets killed
Its all an opinion... an opinion can't be wrong.
but, to be honest, i know a lot of STUPID people who watch this show. I wouldnt take their opinions on things for JACK SQUAT. (I have a neighbor who thought that after last season's finale maybe Nathan and Peter's souls fused together and they rode around the universe in a spaceship together- and she was dead serious. )
(I have a neighbor who thought that after last season's finale maybe Nathan and Peter's souls fused together and they rode around the universe in a spaceship together- and she was dead serious. )
indeed! That could possibly be the strangest theory I've ever heard.
the last episode was good, and most everyone i know who watched it thought so.
which means either
a) they are wrong
b) you are wrong.
now, being that people like to be entertained and this entertained them, id say that you are wrong.
why is this?
someone said its like the heroes writers are steps behind the viewers. sorry, but they are the WRITERS.... which means it goes the way they want it to. just because you have a grand theory, and you have an idea about how you think it should go, doesnt mean it has to go that way.
you're getting annoyed by it not doing what you hoped itd do, then stop thinking about it so damn much and just enjoy it.
You clearly don't understand (or don't want to understand) what we're saying. This has nothing to do with Tim Kring's vision for the show and us getting all irritated because his brilliant plan is different than ours.
The problem is that Tim Kring and his writers really have no plan, and that leads to BAD writing. Heroes is not a complete story like Battlestar Galactica or LOST, and it's really starting to show. It's a series of vignettes that hopefully center around a common theme.
Tim Kring clearly doesn't know exactly where he's going with much of this. A few things:
1. Last year, Kring said he had ideas for up through 5 seasons of episodes.
2. Kring said the show would not have many if any characters that stretched across seasons, but that it would be a rotating cast.
3. Kring later revoked his assertion in #2 when he suddenly realized that fans liked the characters we already had on the show (and with that realization, his vision for the show changed).
4. Kring himself has admitted that this season was poorly thought out and poorly executed. He as much as said that the romances suck and the first arc has been a total snooze.
And as everyone has said, the total lack of consistency with regard to character powers is ridiculous. It's almost like an homage to actual long-running comic books who constantly change authors and, thus, have canonical inconsistencies and plot holes that can only be explained away with even MORE ridiculous writing (er, Crisis on Infinite Earths, anyone?).
As people said, these inconsistencies and inadequacies stretch across the board.
Why can the Haitian block Parkman unknowingly from a football field away while Nathan can escape by flying away when the Haitian is about 5 feet from him?
Why doesn't Peter read more minds when he knows that he's potentially surrounded by liars? ("He's an idiot" is NOT an adequate answer.)
Why was a phaser shot on three separate occasions in this show (twice in a completely unnecessary way)?
Why would Niki attack Sylar at Kirby Plaza when she had no idea who either Peter or Sylar were to begin with? Also, she hit Sylar with a goddamn parking meter using super strength and Sylar was barely even injured. I know it's T.V., but if you're gonna have someone like Claire, who constantly has bones sticking out and ruins all her cheerleader outfits with bloodstains, it would seem to follow logically that other people without this power could be seriously injured on this show from things like, I don't know, being clocked at high speed with a large, heavy stick of metal.
And let's not forget time travel, in which a history-altering romp in feudal Japan leads to no changes in the present while an altruistic single action by a politician alters the entire "Five Years Gone" future.
This has nothing to do with my expectations or desires and everything to do with what does or doesn't make any sense. I enjoy a good, fun story as much as the next person, but not at the expense of plot holes and drivel.
And of course none of this includes silly, senseless production miscues and poorly executed blocking. Remember Nathan flying into Kirby Plaza and responding to a line by Claire he could not possibly have heard while he was flying toward her (the sentence literally began when Nathan was still out of sight behind a building in the far distance)? Or how about Elle and Bob side-stepping out of a hospital hallway in perfect harmony right as Peter passed? It reminded me of a vaudevillian comedy duo. And, again, how did they know that Peter would bring Nathan to a hospital, and THAT hospital specifically? Why was Bob even in NY? Didn't Linderman say the company was evacuating? Weren't they banking on the bomb exploding?
Season 2 could have added depth, but instead all it seems to have done is make Season 1 look worse, as if it was all building toward something and they ran out of ideas. That's why we get recycled storylines (D.L. gets shot while Niki struggles with a split personality, Claire is a cheerleader competing with the school witch queen, Peter is naive and confused, there's a looming evil future that someone accidentally jumps into, Isaac's painting are road signs to bad times, etc.).
OK, enough. I just had to get it all out and now I'm done bitching for a few weeks. Here's hoping they can rally in these final three episodes of Volume 2 in time to win back their hemorrhaging fan base.
Last edited by Talmidi Orha on Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
[quote="Safety"]I believe there is a plot hole with the haitian since last season. I mean, why could Nathan fly away while the haitian and HRG were so near him at the hotel's parking lot in Vegas ???? The writers are not counting on our memory.....
I don't think they wanted to kill him by taking his powers away from him while he was 200' in the air. The last thing they needed to do was try to cover up the death of a well known wealthy man.
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