I have been SO into this show but the last episode was a disappointment, riddled with narrative inconsistances. A whole season building to a climactic battle between good and evil embodied in Peter and Sylar. Two SUPER superheroes that have dozens, if not tens of dozens of powers between them and instead, peter punches sylar 3 times, thug-style.
I'd agree with that. And why does Nikki get involved in the fight, she doesn't know either of the 2 guys.
I had some questions about this episode,
How does Claire know where to go after she jumps? For that matter how does Nathan know where to find Peter?
As mentioned before, why doesn't anyone see Sylar/make sure he's dead? Wouldn't that be the logical thing to do once you've taken out the villain you were after for goodness knows how long.
If the scenes with Charles Devoux weren't dream sequences? Shouldn't Past Peter have absorbed the powers from Present Peter and seen him be invisible?
Best part of this episode was Simone staying dead though.
I see I'm not the only one who was disappointed by this episode. Not only did I expect the Peter vs. Sylar to be much more than it was, but I also expected Peter to reach critical mass and explode a lot sooner.
One thing I was wondering though is, what did all of the other citizens of NY think when they saw a big explosion in the sky?
I have been SO into this show but the last episode was a disappointment, riddled with narrative inconsistances. A whole season building to a climactic battle between good and evil embodied in Peter and Sylar. Two SUPER superheroes that have dozens, if not tens of dozens of powers between them and instead, peter punches sylar 3 times, thug-style. If I'd wanted Sopranos, I'd have watched Sopranos. And then Hiro appears and runs 10 feet towards a man that can stop speeding bullets and manages to stab him? Come on! You spent a year developing fantastic SUPERpowered Characters! USE THEM!!! Kring and Co were geniuses in creating a storyline of literally limitless possibilities and then squndered it by utilizing NONE of them.
I'll watch next season but I hope they can redeem what up till a few minutes ago was a REALLY good show.
Well the point is that these ARE ORDINARY PEOPLE with extra-ordinary powers. And some of them have not mastered them. And using special effects all the time, while great for the fan-viewer experience does nothing for the narrative.
I think they showed what they had to show. Sylar was involved in an apocalyptic struggle were his powers were not supreme, his TK did not give him the upper hand, but neither did Peter's power use help him, because he build-up to an overload. In the confusion, Hiro, stabbed Sylar. In the end, Sylar still had the were-withal to TK Hiro "away" from himself towards a building.
Again, the story writers did it really well.
Give them the budget of a $90 million dollar X-Men movie and you'll see your post-apocalyptic battle.
I have been SO into this show but the last episode was a disappointment, riddled with narrative inconsistances. A whole season building to a climactic battle between good and evil embodied in Peter and Sylar. Two SUPER superheroes that have dozens, if not tens of dozens of powers between them and instead, peter punches sylar 3 times, thug-style.
I'd agree with that. And why does Nikki get involved in the fight, she doesn't know either of the 2 guys.
I had some questions about this episode,
How does Claire know where to go after she jumps? For that matter how does Nathan know where to find Peter?
As mentioned before, why doesn't anyone see Sylar/make sure he's dead? Wouldn't that be the logical thing to do once you've taken out the villain you were after for goodness knows how long.
If the scenes with Charles Devoux weren't dream sequences? Shouldn't Past Peter have absorbed the powers from Present Peter and seen him be invisible?
Best part of this episode was Simone staying dead though.
They were dream sequences....he didn't physically travel there, he mentally traveled there, which is why his body was still laying on the ground
Well, the fact that so many were right in what happened with Nathan flying to the sky with peter was just LAME LAME LAME!!! I hated that and hoped it didn't happen, but knew that was going to be where they went with it the more I thought about it....this episode made Hiro my favorite character by far though.....and liked what they did with him and the way the finished, and started (the next chapter) with him.....
This episode was very disappointing, and anyone who thinks otherwise is waaay too much of a fanboy.
I agree with Sick. The fight between Peter and Sylar was a joke, laughable. Claire could've killed Peter. Nathan could've dropped Peter off in the Atlantic. There is no way Hiro should've been able to kill Sylar without stopping time. And after an entire season in which there was one villain universally viewed as pure evil and needing to killed, nobody finishes him off, and worse yet, don't notice him slide into the sewer system.
After such a great season, it's mindboggling that the finale could be so bad.
This episode was very disappointing, and anyone who thinks otherwise is waaay too much of a fanboy.
I agree with Sick. The fight between Peter and Sylar was a joke, laughable. Claire could've killed Peter. Nathan could've dropped Peter off in the Atlantic. There is no way Hiro should've been able to kill Sylar without stopping time. And after an entire season in which there was one villain universally viewed as pure evil and needing to killed, nobody finishes him off, and worse yet, don't notice him slide into the sewer system.
After such a great season, it's mindboggling that the finale could be so bad.
Here's the thing. Yourself, and many others posting on this thread want what I would call a COMIC BOOK ending with easy answers, easy conclusions, the villain incarcerated in Arkham Asylum.
Well, this isn't a Comic Book. This is real life. Stuff happens:
HRG is immobilized. Claire is torn up by the decision she has to make -- She's just a teenager!!! Mohinder is trying to protect Molly and Micah. DL is hurt very badly. Parkman is down for the count. Nikki has superstrength, but is NOT Superwoman, she is vulnerable. In other words these are REAL PEOPLE with some abilities. IF you were in their shoes, would you have done a lot better?
As for Nathan/Peter flying off... that has not been resolved, so how can you judge that outcome?
Peter could barely control his powers to fight Sylar, and once the powers started being used, that was all Sylar could do to defend himself. The level of development of the characters was on par with what we we expected for their powers as well.
Hiro managed to approach for two reasons: (1) He teleported in! (2) Sylar was stunned from the fights. (That one was easy).
Finally, Sylar sliding down the sewer...How do you know that Sylar was not helped sliding down the sewer? Did you pay attention when Molly talked about the person WORSE THAN THE BOOGYMAN? Worse than Sylar? Is this who saved Sylar?
You have very little faith in the show writers. I think they are doing a pretty good job in trying to balance a number of things: trying to keep things grounded in reality (as much as possible).
Sylar was stunned? No one noticed Sylar escaping/being helped into the sewer?
I agree that the writing has been great and there are many levels to this more-real-than-comic story. However, the level of dissection on this board to date has been surreal, but in the final episode most become apoogists?
There were some serious holes that need to be acknowledged. Unless, of course, the future battles/story will be as "epic" as NBC billed Peter/Sylar to be, then everything's cool, homey.
I gotta agree with Herc. The writers have devised the best plot twists for Heroes fans, so why don't we have a little faith in them?
As for the episode, I won't argue whether or not it was good or bad-- I mean, I was expecting to see Peter and Sylar battle it out in an epic battle against a superhero and a super-villain, but hey, how exactly would that work, you guys?
Let's compare and contrast both Sylar's and Peter's powers.
Peter Petrelli
--Empathy
--Flight
--Precognition
--Teleportation and Chronokinesis
--Spontaneous Regeneration
--Telekinesis
--Mind Reading
--Radiation Manipulation
--Invisibility
--Super Strength
Gabriel Sylar
--The ability to eat brains and not barf
--Ability to Figure out how things work
--Telekinesis
--Ice Manipulation
--Super Hearing
--Eidetic Memory
--Melting Solid Objects
--Enhanced Hearing
--Radiation Manipulation
--Precognition
Alright. Now tell me, out of all those powers, how many can you actually see causing some "Epic" damage? Peter has telekinesis, radiation, and super strength. I'm not counting time manipulation because he hasn't mastered that yet. Now, with the telekinesis, he can what? Throw Sylar around? Yeah, not really epic. With the radiation... yeah, we know how *that* turns out. As for the super strength, we saw him use it didn't we? When he beat the crap out of Sylar? I think it's safe to assume that his super strength really can't break down entire buildings.
Now, let's move on to Sylar. He has telekinesis, Ice manipulation, and the radiation. Sylar used his telekinesis early on, and all he could do was choke Peter and stop bullets. He could throw Peter around, but would that be as epic as, let's say, fire versus ice? I guess, to some extent, yes, it would be. But I wouldn't want to watch two people throwing each other around like ragdolls for an entire 10 minutes.
Next, the ice manipulation. For some reason, he doesn't use it... at all. I know he can freeze people, he showed that ability early into the season. Why didn't he use it now? The reason why is because if he did, he'd win-- and we wouldn't want Sylar to win in a story where he's supposed to lose, right? Lastly, radiation... if he used that, he'd blow Peter apart, and I guess, with the right amount of explosions, he'd destroy everything.
So I'm guessing they didn't put the epic battle in there because of the fact that if they did, Sylar would win without question.
As for the episode, I thought it was great, generally, although, it is a cliffhanger. Is Nathan dead? or did he let Peter go, knowing full well that he'd be alright, and get to a safe distance? (I like this theory. I don't want the Flying man to die, now that he's redeemed himself.)
Actually, that's the only question I'm asking. It was one of the better ones. Hands down.
Sorry if I'm cutting into an area of discussion within the episode, but I'm watching the episode right now and realized something. After Peter realized Claire was missing when he was out in the street, his hands started glowing like he was going to explode. He passed out before he could, and I'm pretty sure I know why. He was breathing rather quickly, maybe even hyperventilating. If any of you do this at times, you know that if you keep it up long enough, you'll pass out, which is exactly what I think happened.
I liked what they did with Hiro in the episode, however. Although it was kind of silly how he could advance on Sylar the way he did, well, he had to stab him some way so I'll let that one go.
The Peter vs. Sylar thing... well, disappointing would be the choice word. Although if Sylar isn't going to die, there's no point in ending the season in some epic battle between them. For the life of me, I can't seem to figure out why there's such a strong attachment with fans to Sylar. I hope that he dies soon in to season 2, but I'd bet that he'll stick around as long as Peter does, unfortunately.
THe lamest part was, of course, the "bomb" scene or maybe more specifically right before it. Didn't Peter already learn to control his radiation power? And why couldn't Claire shoot him? SHE HAD JUST JUMPED OUT OF A 40 STORY WINDOW! Don't tell me she lakced faith in the power or was hesitant to save the world or some crap. If the writers wanted Nathan to save the city (which albeit slow and also silly was at least redeeming), have Sylar at least tk-push everyone, including Claire, out of the way so she doesn't just stand there.
So, I don't have enough posts to create a new topic so I will just cut and paste what I wanted to say onto this thread which is the closest to what I wanted to start:
Title:
"Loved It!" vs Hated It! - the Finale.
So let's get this thing started! First off I LOVE Heroes. I have really been enjoying this show this year but the final episodes, ESPECIALLY the Finale last night REALLY disappointed.
There are Many reasons I feel this way and I'll list a couple:
1. The Lack Luster showdown between Peter and Sylar. They have dozens and dozens of really supercool powers that the show has meticulously, painstakingly crafted for them through various plot points - I mean, that was Sylars WHOLE character in a nutshell! Kill others to make himself greater and more powerful - And then they end up just slugging it out with their fleshy fists. Very lame. VERY. Especially after teasing us not once but twice, in .07% and Five Years Gone that a big time Sylar/Peter clash was coming. And sure, it could still come next season but it should have happened last night - if the much anticipated 1st season finale of a show about superheroes isn't the perfect place to put a kick ass showdown between the two most powerful heroes each representing Good and Evil respectively, than I really don't know when that would be.
2. The fact that Hiro can run up to and stab Sylar, a guy who, supposedly can hear the change of your heart rate and stop bullets with a lifted finger is just silly. Now, I'll say that Hiro, with his teleportation and time stop/slowing ability is the best candidate (after peter) to take on Sylar but he RUNS AT HIM as though he doesn't even have powers. He doesn't teleport behind him, he doesn't stop time or anything. This brings another point. Did anyone else find it a little silly that Hiros dad is training him in samurai swordsmanship right now? Like, It's cool that he would learn how to weild that thing properly, but THE MAN CAN STOP TIME. It seems to me that is skill enough to make you into a proficient fighter. Let's work to develope THAT skill instead.
3. Nathans character in the last episode is all... um... not good... (stop me if the words I'm using are too big) I was starting to wonder if it was even him, or if he was being controlled by someone. And when he arrived to take off with Peter, I don't know, I felt like it was supposed to be this ginourmous moment in the series and it was just like, "Ok. Fine. Nathan changed his mind about allowing millions of people to die so he could be president and instead decided to (needlessly) save the day. Big Hero. Big Deal. Are we supposed to be impressed? Also, how did he know where they all were?
4. Candace said she was actually fat but when she was knocked out and everything returned to how it really was she was still a model thin hottie (yes I'm aware this is a very small point but it illustrates that things where not firing on all cyliders in the Kring war room. It's the little details, you know?! Pay attention, Writers? Directors?)
5. We where shown from more than one source, (Peters own dreams/visions for one) that the explotion happens at a certain time on a certain day, in a certain way. When Hiro, right at the top of the season inadvertantly beams himself into the future we are even given a date and nearly a time. This was great - it established the problem to be solved. It created structure for the season - These are the characters. This is the mission they have. Then was introduced the soon to be overused "Save the Cheerleader. Save the World." Slogan. It was apparently SO imprtant that we keep Claire safe. We don't really know why but we are asked by the storytellers to trust them that this is REALLY important. They now have a narrative obligation to make it important... and it never is. Claire doesn't save them. I mean, right up until the last minute! Peter just before Nathan swoops in says, "Claire, you are the only one who can do it!" Why? Because she can regenerate? Well, unlike Ted Sprague in the bennet house Peter doesn't seem to be putting out the BTU's at all! (yet another plot discrepency) since nathan lands in between them and grabs peter yet does not have his skin melted off.
5.5 Just random tidbits about this final scene: Bennet a self described "Pretty good shot" could have shot peter from the building where he was sitting but aparently superheroes need to use guns only from a distance of 10 feet or less. "Your the only one" "Please tell me there's another way" "The futures not written in stone." It seems clear to me that Kring and company were more interested in trying to create a melodramatic tear jerking moment than actually being true to the story; to the rules they'd built for their world and the characters they'd constructed or true to just plain old common sense! When claire says, "please tell me there's another way" I feel like shouting, "Yes, there's about 100!!!" Some that I've come up with or seen on other posts: Shoot him and let him regenerate, Stick a pointy object into his medula oblongata and pull it out later after he has cooled down (or rather NOT cooled down since the exploding radioactive man, wasn't really all that hot - just glowy) Have peter use his own flying skills to send him soaring away. Have a NEW "future Hiro" maybe in some funky unseen outfit, grab him and beam away or stop time or whatever. or any other possible cool funky scenerios that COULD have been given us.
5.7 In that vein and in closing, this show did a wonderful job over the last 9 months creating this world, these characters and the rules and superstructure within which they roam. At the same time, through the various powers the characters have: bending space time, making people see what you want them to see, cancelling out everyones powers (the unseen long forgotten haitian) etc etc etc etc you insert into the story the ability to manipulate that world in endlessly cool ways. There was NOTHING that was beyond the realm of possibility for the writers. Instead, last night, we got Nuthin: a slugfest and mindless melodrama. Why would they spend so much time and effort establishing such wondrous creations if they had no intention of using them.
p.s.
The one good thing that happened was Molly's reveal about someone worse than Sylar. That hooked my brain and tickled my geek-dar. Here's a guess, Sylar actually IS dead and whoever this "worse" person is, he, she or it DRAGGED Sylar into the sewer - I have a few guesses but I'm thinking maybe it could be his Mom? She was one of the flashes in his eye as he lay dying and all the others were people he killed (i think) for their powers. I dunno. I'm grasping at plot straws in order to save what had been my favorite show... like, ever!
I'll still watch next season but I feel like I just got bit by my loyal trusty dog. I still love the dog but I no longer trust it like I did.
p.p.s.
For all those confused as to why they used a cockroach... please just go and watch the very first episode. Yeah... asking why they used a cockroach is, well, just not a very good question...
Last edited by Zilibabwei on Tue May 22, 2007 8:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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