Also seems some other theories were pretty darned accurate.
Know what this says to me?
It's either getting predictable, or they're releasing too many preview vids.
[Edit] - That's not to detract from the intelligence of the theorisers here, it's just that in the past, whatever's been theorised, we could pretty much count on the writers to come straight out of left field and catch us off-guard.(Great mixed metaphor, that!)
I mean, I hadn't even SEEN the preview vids, only read what y'all posted about them, yet from about 10 minutes in, it was obvious what was gonna happen for the rest of the episode.
Kinda ruined it for me, you know? Still, props to everyone that theorised correctly on that one!
eek, yep, im gonna try to stick to talking about THIS eps, i agree we start discussing this eps, then we go off on what we think will happen next (meaning the next eps)
and yep, i know i've accidently said stuff that includes waaay too much about the previews to the next eps...point taken
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: Hiro, Atomic Bombs, Powers.
In all seriousness, I think a lot of you try to complicate things by not thinking logically and just throwing stuff out there... but this should answer some of the questions.
The most probable reason with why Future Hiro doesn't know that Claire is alive is probably because he just got back from the past when he met up with Hiro in Isaac's apartment.
No, seriously guys, if you listen to his dialogue after he sees past Hiro, he specifically says, "What are you doing here? You're not supposed to be here! None of this is supposed to be here!" and "The bomb. The bomb still happened-- it was all supposed to change."
This draws to the conclusion that right after Hiro and Ando enter the shop, Future Hiro had just come back from warning Peter-- thusly, he couldn't have known that Claire was still alive because in his timeline, she died after Sylar killed her.
Another thing you guys are talking about is whether or not Sylar is the bomb or not. Neither Peter or Sylar have met up wtih Ted yet, and I'm assuming one of them meets up with him when Ted, Matt and Bennet go to New York to take down Primatech's base of operations.
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: revelations
sugar_slayer wrote:
so i watched this ep again
and one thing hit me - saving the cheerleader did nuffin!!
cos when F.Hiro came back the only thing that was different was claire being alive.
peter and niki
peters scar
parkman being bad
suresh working with nathan
nathan being the president
HRG hiding people with powers.
Ando dying
none of this seems to have changed otherwise F.Hiro would've been extremely confused.
How can you say that "saving the cheerleader did nuffin!!"
it changed absolutely everything. the way i see it there are two timelines so far
in the timeline that future hiro is originally from
1. syler killed clair and took her ability and probably didn't get cot by HRG he wasn't imprisoned and was free to do what ever he wanted
2. he killed ted and got his ability (and probably killed matt to as they were traveling together) then he went to blow up new york (cos he was bored) and ran into future hiro who sliced him across the chest. but this didn't kill him as he regenerated.
3. five years pass and future hiro developes his plan and travels into the past and tells peter to save the "cheerleader" and then he returns to the future.
NOW THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART
THE FUTURE THAT FUTURE HIRO RETURNS TO IS AN ALTERNATE TIME LINE
in this future timeline (which is episode 20)
1. clair survived syler. syler was captured
2. peter bumps into ted in new york says hello and promply explodes
the reason future hiro wasn't confused when he returns to the future is because the defining moment for both timelines ( the bomb ) still happens and so nothing else really changes. clair being alive doesnt influence the timeline because she goes into hiding. hiro doesnt really notice the change because its so small he doesnt know peter was the bomb in this timeline
Hi everyone. This is my first post On another forum I am on (which has nothing to do with Heroes LOL), we are having a bit of a Heroes discussion. Another woman there gave me the link to this forum, and I have to say I love it
Our debate:
Is the diner Claire is at-Burnt Toast-the same one Charlie worked at or is it a different diner?
Thanks for the help!
One more thought...
the whole about Sylar being the bomb first...then Peter being the bomb...I think it is linked to what happened with Charlie. NYC is going to blow up no matter what-like Charlie had to die. Hiro saved her from Sylar...but she still died just in a different way...
I think the "Charlie" part of the story is very important...
One more thought...
the whole about Sylar being the bomb first...then Peter being the bomb...I think it is linked to what happened with Charlie. NYC is going to blow up no matter what-like Charlie had to die. Hiro saved her from Sylar...but she still died just in a different way...
I think the "Charlie" part of the story is very important...
What? Do you mean that Charlie, the girl in the diner, was an important figure in the story line? or are you saying that her particular circumstances can be applied to this scenario?
I agree that there must be another Shapeshifter out there somewhere, because I don't believe that Matt is that evil. Yes, he's living in a difficult world, apart from his wife and child, but a transformation like that - to such a horrible character is absurd. There's got to be something going on there.
Here's my timeline opinions:
There ARE different timelines, but they can never change... ever. Its best to not think about them as Loops, because that implies that they can change, they are unwavering lines. But the thing is, Hiro can't travel in time. He can travel between timelines, but never forward and never backwards from his originating timeline. Every time he goes into the future or past, it is just a different place on a different timeline.
BUT, Hiro isn't in his original timeline, and he hasn't been since Episode 1, so nothing he does can have any impact on how things turn out in the timeline he originated from. Why? In Episode 1, Hiro turns the clock back by one second, teleporting himself into the past. Though nothing seems to change around him, he is in fact in a different timeline. And he has been for the entire show. Eventually, Hiro will realize that nothing he does has any impact on the major events of the other timelines. With this knowledge, he will be able to figure out what change he needs to invoke in his timeline to prevent the bomb.
I predict that this season will end with Hiro teleporting back to the moment he turns back the clock by one second. He will then stay in his own timeline. He only has to make one call, to Dr Seresh Sr "Hello? Mr Seresh? I have message for you: Mr Gray is not special."
The original (only?) time line can and has changed. Remember when Hiro went back in time to save Charlie? He teleported back to her previous birthday and was captured on film.That picture wouldn't exist in the same timeline if Hiro couldn't change the past. Ando saw that picture in the present and asked the waitress at the diner about it. She knew it was Hiro. He had worked in the diner when he went back to the past, but nobody in the diner recognized him before he went back in time.
Hope I am doing this right...
But I think what happened with Charlie-how Hiro went back to save her...and did-from Sylar...but yet he still "failed" because then she died from the brain tumor instead...is what is important. He couldn't change the fact that she died...but he did change HOW she died.
In other words...Hiro can go back and possibly "change" the past...but certain events will still happen just in a different way. That's why I think NYC will explode no matter what...just that a different set of circumstances will bring it about.
I agree that there must be another Shapeshifter out there somewhere, because I don't believe that Matt is that evil. Yes, he's living in a difficult world, apart from his wife and child, but a transformation like that - to such a horrible character is absurd. There's got to be something going on there.
Here's my timeline opinions:
There ARE different timelines, but they can never change... ever. Its best to not think about them as Loops, because that implies that they can change, they are unwavering lines. But the thing is, Hiro can't travel in time. He can travel between timelines, but never forward and never backwards from his originating timeline. Every time he goes into the future or past, it is just a different place on a different timeline.
BUT, Hiro isn't in his original timeline, and he hasn't been since Episode 1, so nothing he does can have any impact on how things turn out in the timeline he originated from. Why? In Episode 1, Hiro turns the clock back by one second, teleporting himself into the past. Though nothing seems to change around him, he is in fact in a different timeline. And he has been for the entire show. Eventually, Hiro will realize that nothing he does has any impact on the major events of the other timelines. With this knowledge, he will be able to figure out what change he needs to invoke in his timeline to prevent the bomb.
I predict that this season will end with Hiro teleporting back to the moment he turns back the clock by one second. He will then stay in his own timeline. He only has to make one call, to Dr Seresh Sr "Hello? Mr Seresh? I have message for you: Mr Gray is not special."
The originally (only?) time line can and has changed. Remember when Hiro went back in time to save Charlie? He teleported back to her previous birthday and was captured on film.That picture wouldn't exist in the same timeline if Hiro couldn't change the past. Ando saw that picture in the present and asked the waitress at the diner about it. She knew it was Hiro. He had worked in the diner when he went back to the past, but nobody in the diner recognized him before he went back in time.
But what I am saying, is that the entire show takes place outside of Hiro's original timeline. Therefore, when he goes back in time to save charlie, he isn't really going back in time. He is entering a DIFFERENT timeline, one where Charlie dies of a brain tumor before Sylar can get to her. Ando doesn't see the timeline they were in change, he sees the different timeline that Hiro travels to, but at a different point.
Aside from all this crazy time travel, I've got a theory to put forth. In Peter's dream where he blows up, it is Sylar that is walking towards him, pretending to be Nathanial.
grr, i said that already....(about nathan really being sylar) saying "let me help you peter..." meaning help him go BOOOM....the thing im NOT sure about yet is whether its sylar present or sylar from the future...i'm leaning towards the latter
Pardon me then. One other thing i think might have caused Peter to blow up, is that he somehow teleports back in time, to himself. And when Peter is in the presence of himself, with more powers, it causes a feedback loop that causes one of him to blow up, and the other to survive.
Perhaps he was fighting Sylar, and knew he couldn't win, so he teleported back in time by 5 min or so, to help his past self fight Sylar. So it was 2 Peters Vs 1 Sylar. But then Sylar chameleoned into Peter, so both Peters were confused as to who was who. Then the Past Peter started to blow up, and the Peter who came back 5 min to help him assumed it was Sylar, so he flew Sylar(looking like Peter) away in time to prevent what he though was his past self from getting killed.
Curiously no one mentioned about The 9th Wonder comic drawn by Isaac. Don`t forget, the effects & situations depicted in The 9th Wonder is still not done happening.
Future Hiro went back to warn Peter and he prevents Sylar from getting regen powers. Peter then tells Hiro about his encounter with his future self and Hiro goes a-hunting for his sword, resulting him teleporting himself to the future.
As a result of Past Hiro teleporting to the future, he gets the blueprint of how to defeat Sylar (read The 9th Wonder), a fact that will never happen if he had remained in the present. My theory is about probability of the future. Like a falling egg, the future if it smashing onto the table (or floor) does not become more definitive until the closer the egg is to the point of impact. I think Isaac selected a probable future where Sylar was neutralised and painted it as The 9th Wonder. He was confident enough that this will transpire that he bragged it to Sylar. Sylar, on the other hand seemed unconcerned and painted a picture of himself in the White House after assimilating Isaac's powers ... kinda like the Emporer failing to foresee his own death on the Death Star despite being strong in the Force.
So to say Episode 20 is unnecessary in the development of the story is not entirely accurate. Without it, who knows how Hiro will find out how to kill(?) Sylar. That`s what I think anyway.
i 100% agree, eps 20 HAD TO HAPPEN, we even saw isaac stuff that pic of the needle into the envelope he was mailing right?
not only that but hasnt it been confirmed that..those pics from future hiro= paintings of isaac that linderman has?
that being said....isaac paints ....not necessarily the future but....WHAT ppl HAVE TO DO TO CHANGE IT KINDA! think about it...everything that he's painted an ACTION has happened...has he ever painted something that "oh...that happens/ will happen"
the only thing i can think of is the original bus bombing thing from eps 1-3 or something...but even then..he ACTED from seeing it...confirming he has the power...painting more etc etc....infact...without seeing it, he wouldnt have believed the NYC bomb would be real...
point is....exploding man= we have to stop it, claire= shows peter where to go, peter+simone kissing= adds to isaac's rage, killing simone....
his paintings dont just SHOW the future...each one CHANGES it
I think that I agree with you, however, I'm going to put it this way:
Issac's paintings all come at a crossroads of sorts.
Mohinder didn't have to inject the Haitian, but because of his strong morality, he did.
Peter didn't have to go off and save the cheerleader, but thanks to Hiro's intervention, he did.
Hiro wouldn't have known about the cheerleader if it wasn't for Issac's paintings when he 'moved in' to Issac's apartment after the explosion. Because of all of Issac's paintings that were about, Hiro was able to put together a rudimentary timeline, which he then devoted his time to perfecting in order to find that 'perfect moment' he mentions to Present Hiro in episode 20.
Not all of Issac's paintings were focal points to the story, but nearly all of his paintings dealt with people who can make an impact on stopping the madness that is Sylar, and the destruction of NYC.
Time will tell if this idea is true, or if the writers had a different idea.
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On another forum I am on (which has nothing to do with Heroes LOL), we are having a bit of a Heroes discussion. Another woman there gave me the link to this forum, and I have to say I love it 
