If Saylar kills Claire in the unaltered past, then why is Claire still alive and working in the cafe 5 years later (she regenerated? but then.... why when Saylar/Nathan meets her in the Petrelli mansion he says something like "I should have done this a long time ago"?)
Because in the episode we're seeing, the Future _has_ been altered.
F. Hiro was able to go back and tell Peter to "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World".
Now, since Sylar didn't have the regen capability, he's not the one to explode. Peter is.
However, since Peter saved Claire, she's been on the run from the government as well. After all, she's also an evolved human, with special abilities. And her adoptive father HRG has been making a living out of hiding the specials, so it stands to reason that he'd be the one to spirit her away, and put her into hiding.
Future Peter, through contact with Claire by saving her, now has the ability to regenerate. However, in the episode, we see that he actually doesn't use that power at all. Why? Did he forget? Doesn't he know?
I'm unsure. I know that PD Peter knows that he can regenerate, but since we're talking about a future timeline, there could be many reasons why he wasn't able to bring out that power. He had quite a few others, but that one didn't show itself.
I have to say that putting Sylar into Nathan's place was quite evil on the part of the writers. I loved the massive duel at the end! Can you imagine the amount of power and force that were being thrown about in that hallway before Hiro teleported out?
If Saylar kills Claire in the unaltered past, then why is Claire still alive and working in the cafe 5 years later (she regenerated? but then.... why when Saylar/Nathan meets her in the Petrelli mansion he says something like "I should have done this a long time ago"?)
Any ideas?
syler/nathan said "I've waited a long time for this"
anyway I think this is how it work's
1. syler killed clare in the past
2. then a load a stuff happened and syler got teds ability and blew up new york
3. five years pass and future hiro goes back in time and warns peter to save the cheerleader.
4. upon returning to the future i.e. a different future where peter was the bomb and syler never got Claire's ability so claire's still alive" future hiro meets up with his old self "from the past" and episode 20 happens.
if you read the interactive novels you learn that future hiro has only just returned to the future and finds it changed so the dark future in episode 20 is the one in which
1. peter was the bomb
2. claire is still alive but in hiding
3. syler almost killed claire but was stoped and then eventually became syler/nathan mr president.(probably to find claire)
syler is slightly obsessed with claires ability because it will make him almost invincible ( and he keeps gittin shot at so he propably want's to do something about it)
hense the phrase "I've waited a long time for this"
honestly, episode 20 is null and void. it was a clever way for the writers to create the greatest heroes episode, kill off a whole bunch of characters, spin off several different storylines and get us talking like crazy.........and it doesn't mean a damn thing.
Wow, haven't posted in a loooong @$$ time but still fervently watching the episodes and novels.
Where in the world is the notion that Sylar is the bomb? Every instance we know it's Peter. We know Sylar will be present for this when it will happen and this is where Hiro needs to kill Sylar to alter the future. (or so we believe) Even if Sylar gets Ted's ability we still haven't been shown anything that Sylar will blow up New York (I believe)
Another thing I'd like to point out. There is more then one shapeshifter of sorts out there. Candice I'd say is still Candice and Sylar took this power from someone else. Sylar/Nathan-wannabe did say he's been in touch with many special people during his life or presidency. (forgot exactly how he worded it)
HRG is the one who sees Candice is dead and then realizes Matt killed her and that's when Matt turns on HRG and kills him. Sylar is unaware of these events and Matt did this himself. Sylar hasn't taken any mind reading powers so he wouldn't know about Matt and HRG both harboring metas. If Sylar was Candice which I've seen people post and speculate, he'd probaly have followed HRG to the diner a few times as a shapeshifted someone else and found Claire on his own.
And with that, this is the greatest show on TV that the world has ever EVER seen!
Last edited by murphster06 on Wed May 02, 2007 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
honestly, episode 20 is null and void. it was a clever way for the writers to create the greatest heroes episode, kill off a whole bunch of characters, spin off several different storylines and get us talking like crazy.........and it doesn't mean a damn thing.
If you think that and can't see how the story is played out through this episode then all I can say is WOW.
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: revelations
so i watched this ep again
and one thing hit me - saving the cheerleader did nuffin!!
cos when F.Hiro came back the only thing that was different was claire being alive.
peter and niki
peters scar
parkman being bad
suresh working with nathan
nathan being the president
HRG hiding people with powers.
Ando dying
none of this seems to have changed otherwise F.Hiro would've been extremely confused.
the only thing that i can think of is if hiro kills sylar before the explosion everyone is going to know its peter. can't put the blame on anyone else.
so that will change the future quite a bit.
i just hope they figure out it is peter before he goes boom
but if he does still go boom - which i think may indeed happen - then will be interesting to see how much of the future will in fact change.
or is it all inevitable
Another thing I'd like to point out. There is more then one shapeshifter of sorts out there. Candice I'd say is still Candice and Sylar took this power from someone else. Sylar/Nathan-wannabe did say he's been in touch with many special people during his life or presidency. (forgot exactly how he worded it)
HRG is the one who sees Candice is dead and then realizes Matt killed her and that's when Matt turns on HRG and kills him.
That was Hana on the floor dead by HRG not Candice... Candice was farmed by Parkman/HRG for Sylar/Nathan just like DL was.
HRG didn't know he was feeding people to Sylar/Nathan, Parkman was playing him all along letting the weak heroes through into hiding while scouping up the real gems for his boss.
I agree that there must be another Shapeshifter out there somewhere, because I don't believe that Matt is that evil. Yes, he's living in a difficult world, apart from his wife and child, but a transformation like that - to such a horrible character is absurd. There's got to be something going on there.
Here's my timeline opinions:
There ARE different timelines, but they can never change... ever. Its best to not think about them as Loops, because that implies that they can change, they are unwavering lines. But the thing is, Hiro can't travel in time. He can travel between timelines, but never forward and never backwards from his originating timeline. Every time he goes into the future or past, it is just a different place on a different timeline.
BUT, Hiro isn't in his original timeline, and he hasn't been since Episode 1, so nothing he does can have any impact on how things turn out in the timeline he originated from. Why? In Episode 1, Hiro turns the clock back by one second, teleporting himself into the past. Though nothing seems to change around him, he is in fact in a different timeline. And he has been for the entire show. Eventually, Hiro will realize that nothing he does has any impact on the major events of the other timelines. With this knowledge, he will be able to figure out what change he needs to invoke in his timeline to prevent the bomb.
I predict that this season will end with Hiro teleporting back to the moment he turns back the clock by one second. He will then stay in his own timeline. He only has to make one call, to Dr Seresh Sr "Hello? Mr Seresh? I have message for you: Mr Gray is not special."
Also another theroy that has been blown apart is that Peters and Sylars powers that they absorb/steal are only tempory has they still have them 5 years on.
Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: revelations
sugar_slayer wrote:
and one thing hit me - saving the cheerleader did nuffin!!
the only thing that i can think of is if hiro kills sylar before the explosion everyone is going to know its peter. can't put the blame on anyone else.
so that will change the future quite a bit.
i just hope they figure out it is peter before he goes boom
but if he does still go boom - which i think may indeed happen - then will be interesting to see how much of the future will in fact change.
or is it all inevitable
I think that "Saving the Cheerleader" did alter one fact, Hiro will now be able to kill Sylar if he has the chance. If Peter had not saved Claire, Hiro would not have been able to stab Sylar "fatally" as shown in the comic book in this episode (whether Sylar lives or dies is another story). It also balances the odds towards Peter's favor in any present battles with Sylar. Sylar seems to have the ability to master his powers quickly while Peter is still having trouble right now. Having the regen trick up his sleeve helps when he screws up.
I disagree that the timelines are fixed somewhat. Obviously, if Future Hiro goes back in time to tell Peter to save Claire, which he did, it would seem unlikely that Present Hiro could jump into another timeline where Claire was killed by Sylar. I think that timelines are being affected by each decision made by the Heroes to mold a different future. I also think that future will now change with the new knowledge Present Hiro has, meaning the future he went into in that episode may or may not exist. And remember, he is going back to kill Sylar, even though it is Peter that explodes. Guess I need to move out of the Big Apple, because it looks like it will be gone three weeks from now regardless of what Hiro does.
One thing, where is Simone (I know she is dead)? In one of the episodes, Peter dreams of blowing up and she is there. How does that factor into this?
This episode is incredibly confusing. I'm hoping somebody can answer what I'm confused about. I'd usually be able to understand these things.
Ok, so I'm going to assume that normal Hiro has traveled 5 years into the future in the time line that IS going to happen, and he can't stop that. I assume this because future Peter says that he was the explosion, because Claire is alive and other things. Also, Mohinder seems to be able to remember Peter being on the train 5 years ago and meeting future Hiro. He wouldn't be able to do this unless it had happened, in which case Peter would have saved Claire and that timeline would have played out, Peter would have exploded and all that stuff would have happened leading up to episode 20. As well as this, obviously if future Hiro does go back in time (which he will) and warn Peter, he's still going to not be able to kill Sylar.
But, there's one flaw I've found in this. Future Hiro doesn't remember Peter telling him about the future Hiro coming to see him 5 years ago. Well, at least I think he did. But even if that wasn't true, there's another problem. How did Sylar regenerate if Claire is still alive?
I'm assuming it's meant to be the inevitable future (but now we know who's going to die and who's not), but I can figure out those last few points I made.
It seems that there is one timeline throughout all of this, and nothing can be changed. So this is my guess as to what goes down:
Syalar eats Candaces brain. Gets close to Nathan, and when Hiro goes to kill sylar, he is met by two Peters. Hiro kills the wrong Nathan, the real Nathan.
The reason Hiro went off to tell Peter to save the cheerleader, is because Bennett told Hiro she was dead.
Won't know til its all over, but the season finale is most likely to be a HUGE cliffhanger.
Actually the reason Hiro told Peter to save Claire was because in his original time line Hiro tryed to kill Sylar with his sword, but failed because Sylar had taken Claires heal ability. Sooooooo if Claire is saved from Sylar when Hiro stabs Sylar a second time he should die due to him not having the heal ability.
Has far as the bomb is concerned then im clueless, i understand that both Peter and Sylar survived it because they both could regenerate as they both absorbed/killed claire, so im guessing they had a punch up and 1 of them went nuclear. Im also guessing Ted plays a major part in the Bomb has well, with 1 of them either eating his brains or absorbing him and not knowing how to control it.
Wow, haven't posted in a loooong behind time but still fervently watching the episodes and novels.
Where in the world is the notion that Sylar is the bomb? Every instance we know it's Peter. We know Sylar will be present for this when it will happen and this is where Hiro needs to kill Sylar to alter the future. (or so we believe) Even if Sylar gets Ted's ability we still haven't been shown anything that Sylar will blow up New York (I believe)
Another thing I'd like to point out. There is more then one shapeshifter of sorts out there. Candice I'd say is still Candice and Sylar took this power from someone else. Sylar/Nathan-wannabe did say he's been in touch with many special people during his life or presidency. (forgot exactly how he worded it)
HRG is the one who sees Candice is dead and then realizes Matt killed her and that's when Matt turns on HRG and kills him. Sylar is unaware of these events and Matt did this himself. Sylar hasn't taken any mind reading powers so he wouldn't know about Matt and HRG both harboring metas. If Sylar was Candice which I've seen people post and speculate, he'd probaly have followed HRG to the diner a few times as a shapeshifted someone else and found Claire on his own.
And with that, this is the greatest show on TV that the world has ever EVER seen!
One major problem here. Candace wasn't working with HRG. That was Hana. Candace, DL, and Molly were all brought to HRG by F. Hiro to be hidden away from Homeland Security.
Second, F. Hiro tells us when he's talking to Hiro that Sylar was the bomb. He'd stabbed Sylar, but Sylar healed, and then exploded.
That was when F. Hiro discovered that they needed to save the cheerleader, to make Sylar vulnerable.
Now, since F. Hiro's meddling in time, F. Peter has the regen ability, and he's the exploding man. The question is now..
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