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Nicholette
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 Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Oh most definitely Talmidi, but see my original post:
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I think it depends on WHERE you are shot.
Remember, in season 1 - when Peter told Claire to shoot him... she wasn't just supposed to shoot him any ol place... no, she was supposed to shoot him in the head... and even then, not in any ol place. To quote Peter, he says "you know the spot".
I think it has to damage that "spot" the same spot where Claire had the tree branch and Peter had the shard of glass.
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I think in order for the people with the regeneration ability, not to be able to come back, that specific "spot" in their brain (the spot that controls their abilities) would have to be obliterated. Destroyed. If you shot them with a high caliber weapon that blew their head off... or at least destroyed that one spot of their brain, I don't think they could come back from that.
In the case of Noah, I agree that he was shot in the brain. But he doesn't have the regenerative ability (doesn't have any ability... at least as far as we know) and so a shot to the head isn't going to keep him from coming back... at least as long as his brain wasn't completely obliterated. I could see them giving him healing blood and him being able to heal as long as his brain was mostly in tact.
Does that make sense?
Feel free to argue with me... I love to hear all the points of view. 
~Nicky
For further clarification -- I think part of the difference is that the actual ability belongs to Claire, Peter, and Adam ... whereas Noah doesn't have the ability, he's just being "healed" -- by an outside source, not an ability in his body. If you shoot Claire in the brain and obliterate that "spot" - she ain't coming back -- she can't. Her ability is gone.
Whereas if you just damage part of someone's brain when you shoot/kill them (i.e. Noah's) and then heal them, they can come back.
(And people have survived being shot in the head before - even suicide victims - just as a side note...) |
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Etticat
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Nicky, i really like your theory there, i havent rewatched it again to scrutinize the scene, but i plan on it now, i think i was under the impression that we all were, in that we assumed it was going to be a staight on shot. I really dont care how HRG was brought back or if it was REALLY possible, i like his character a lot. This being fantasy makes all things a posibility, and generates hope. |
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Talmidi Orha
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Nicholette wrote: |
For further clarification -- I think part of the difference is that the actual ability belongs to Claire, Peter, and Adam ... whereas Noah doesn't have the ability, he's just being "healed" -- by an outside source, not an ability in his body. If you shoot Claire in the brain and obliterate that "spot" - she ain't coming back -- she can't. Her ability is gone.
Whereas if you just damage part of someone's brain when you shoot/kill them (i.e. Noah's) and then heal them, they can come back.
(And people have survived being shot in the head before - even suicide victims - just as a side note...) |
Yes, but if the BLOOD is regenerative, and the blood flows to Claire/Adam/Peter's brain, the why wouldn't it heal them, if the same blood would heal any other brain? Their brain is immune to the powers of their own blood? Their blood either has regenerative properties or it doesn't.
It makes no sense to say that their brain controls their power and the blood has no regenerative power in and of itself if you are then going to turn around and claim that the blood DOES have regenerative power in and of itself when injected into other people, who don't have the power that made the blood work in the first place. It's a logical k-hole.
In fact, I think it was dumb to give the blood regenerative properties at all. They said the brain was where the power was, but then demonstrated definitively in the second season that the brain isn't telling the body to heal, but that the blood has regenerative properties that heal the body automatically. It's a major, major inconsistency.
Again, with reference to "the spot," you're arguing against your own point.
If I understand correctly, you're arguing that YES there is a place in the brain that if you injure, there's no coming back from it. This fits with Adams comment. You then say that this "spot" is at the base of the skull where Peter told Claire to shoot him.
Do you see the huge problem with your argument here?
Peter points to the spot where the glass pierced his brain. It's the same(ish) spot where Claire suffered her fatal injury. They both came back to life after the object is removed. That runs in direct contradiction to "there's no coming back from that one," and "One shot, straight to the head. It's the only way."
If anything, "the spot" is one place where it has been demonstrated that injury WILL NOT PERMANENTLY KILL YOU. Shoot Peter in "the spot," and he will resurrect the moment the bullet is removed, just like he resurrected after the glass was removed.
So that means that getting shot through the front of the head doesn't kill you, and nether does shooting you through the backof the head, even at the base of the skull (the most sensitive part of the brain).
So, to sum up:
1. If the blood has regenerative properties in and of itself (such that it can heal even fatal brain injuries in non-specials), then it makes no sense to imagine that the blood wouldn't work the same way inside the body of a healer, even in the event the brain is destroyed. The power should have either been in the brain or in the blood. If it's in the brain, the blood wouldn't work on other people. If it's in the blood, then brain injuries are inconsequential. You can't have it both ways.
2. Instead of helping with this problem, "the spot" actually complicates it. If there is a place in the brain that, if injured, resurrection becomes impossible, it is certainly not the place at the base of the skull where both Claire and Peter were injured, because after all we did see them both recover from it.
I have a TON of unanswered questions about this ability in general that go beyond the blood thing. How does the power, lingering in a dead body and dependent upon the brain, kick back into gear when a foreign object is removed? The power stays alive even if the person is dead? How long after death will it work? Would Peter have started to biodegrade if Claire hadn't pulled out the piece of glass? If he biodegraded most of the way and THEN the glass was removed, would he heal all that time later?
Also, when you suffer brain damage, even if the damage heals, you wouldn't remember everything you used to. Peter healing his brain from damage to regain his memories? That's not how brain damage works. Once it's gone, it's gone for good. We're not talking about suppressed memories. We're talking about ones that were stored in areas of the brain that have been destroyed. If I break my hard drive's disc and then replace/repair it, it won't have the info on it that was there when I broke it.
And, as I mentioned before, why can the miracle blood travel through the body via the arteries (Noah, Maya) when the heart has stopped?
OH GOD, THE MADNESS! THE MADNESS!!!  |
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Etticat
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| How can Nathan Fly? Oh yeah, and how could Iassac paint things that hadnt even happened yet? Then i wanna know why Micah can get free Pay Per Views? I even hear there is one guy that could walk through walls? How can all this be? |
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Talmidi Orha
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Etticat wrote: |
| How can Nathan Fly? Oh yeah, and how could Iassac paint things that hadnt even happened yet? Then i wanna know why Micah can get free Pay Per Views? I even hear there is one guy that could walk through walls? How can all this be? |
Again, dude. I'm not talking about the show not being realistic. I'm talking about it not making sense.
Are you gonna chide me every time in the exact same way?
I didn't say "There's no such thing as regeneration, so how can Peter or Claire do it?" Did I?
No, what I said was that they gave the power certain principles and then pretty much ignored them. Sort of like with Peter's power (he has to be around you; now he has to think about you; now he doesn't even have to know you as long as he passes you on the street).
OK, the medical stuff at the end of my post was a bit more about "realism" (heart beating, brain damage), but those aren't really my beefs with the show. I just smile when those types of real-life conventions are simply ignored. I don't care that much.
What I hate, hate, hate (  ) is when the writers contradict their own principles like with Claire's power. The power is in the brain. Wait, it's in the blood. Wait, the blood can heal non-specials, but healers need their unique brain for their own blood to work. Getting injured in the brain won't kill you, wait yes it will. Wait, no it won't. Or at least it won't if your not a special. Wait WHAT?!
I have a very analytical mind. I watch carefully and I piece things together as I receive information. The puzzle pieces we have been given as viewers simply don't fit a lot of the time. Is it in the blood or in the brain? Can you survive a shot to the head or no? The writer's don't know any better than we do. |
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Etticat
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Honestly Dude i am not chiding anyone, and i am not directing at you, I am putting my point of view on a forum that is directed to the public. I even agreed with you and stated that i could see your point on all this, in an earlier post. You dont subscribe to everyones opinion, and neither will everyone agree with you, or my opinions. |
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Talmidi Orha
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| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Etticat wrote: |
| Honestly Dude i am not chiding anyone, and i am not directing at you, I am putting my point of view on a forum that is directed to the public. I even agreed with you and stated that i could see your point on all this, in an earlier post. You dont subscribe to everyones opinion, and neither will everyone agree with you, or my opinions. |
I'm not mad. I was just pointing out that it was the second time I've made a post saying that something doesn't make sense, and you've responded immediately in a voice parodying my criticisms. It's all good. I'm fine with getting poked a little, so I was just poking back.  |
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xander_joe
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Oops. Looks like my last post started out another huge war. Sorry guys. 
But HRG does die due to stupid writing and rise back up after more stupid writing.
I So wanna see heroes do good, since I believe Heroes has the most potential for entertainment. hey Tim, I hope ur reading this. |
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Squeaker
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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It's magic. There you go  Problem solved.  |
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Etticat
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Oh what Bliss you deliver Squeaker. I truely do believe it to be that simple, i luv this show flawed or not ! |
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xander_joe
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Laughing out loud and Scratching head at the same time!!! |
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LemmingLord
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Talmidi Orha wrote: |
It makes no sense to say that their brain controls their power and the blood has no regenerative power in and of itself if you are then going to turn around and claim that the blood DOES have regenerative power in and of itself when injected into other people, who don't have the power that made the blood work in the first place. It's a logical k-hole.
In fact, I think it was dumb to give the blood regenerative properties at all. |
You are making VERY good points.
Obviously continuity errors. On the point about memory, however, there is much contention in the scientific community about the "location" of memories. Many times when they find the "location" of a memory by EM scans while a person concentrates on a memory, they've found that that part can be destroyed and they can still find that memory elsewhere... The brain has a kind of redundancy... Everything is stored everywhere. It isn't too hard to believe that there wasn't "copies" of the information that could be uncovered. |
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