Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject: Good, moral, morally gray, and evil
This thought was sparked by posts that JJ and I had exchanged in another thread:
jj0802 wrote:
popkorn615 wrote:
Personally, I think Mohinder is beginning to understand that The Company (now) really does have good intentions, as opposed to the goals that were set when Linderman was the head. Bob is taking things in a new direction and, in my opinion, for the better. Mohinder is realizing that HRG is ONLY concerned with his family, and if that means for some reason Mohinder has to die or be killed in order to preserve HRG's family, HRG is willing to do that, and Mohinder now realizes that he is expendable in HRG's eyes, which is why he's ratting himself and HRG out to Bob. I don't think Mohinder will be killing Bob. Nice thought though!
I'm slowing coming around to this line of thinking regarding Bob. Not so much because of what he says or does, but things he doesn't do. I was skeptical when he apologized to Mohinder about his decision to inject Monica with the virus. Then when they showed Bob and Monica in a subsequent scene, I fully expected him to inject her himself. But he didn't. Either that lack of action is indicative of his true intent or injecting Monica wasn't as important to him as keeping Mohinder loyal. It is beginning to seem though that his intentions are actually good...
In a traditional sense (and even in some superhero scenarios), the term "good" often implies principles such as 'don't kill,' 'don't hurt,' etc. However, I think Bob is more 'moral' than he is 'good,' and by 'moral,' I mean that he is willing to do whatever it takes (on the side of good) to save humanity. The reason I said "on the side of good" was because Linderman, too, was trying to 'save' humanity, but his methods were evil. I'm not so sure that Bob would allow an explosion to kill .07% of the world's population.
Here's how I see our characters (if it makes any sense at all, lol):
Linderman/Adam = evil
HRG = morally gray
Bob = moral
Peter = good
I honestly am not sold on Bob being anything at this point. My personal theory is that it is all a setup by Bob. He's not being honestly with Mohinder. One minute he wanted Mohinder to inject the virus in Monica so she won't have any abilities, then he does a complete 180 and says all the viles will be destroyed. Then Maury comes to get Bob and then he reverts back to the old, we must inject Maury with the virus attitude, which resulted in Niki injecting herself. The way it see it is Linderman= morally gray, a man who heals people can't be entirely evil. HRG= moral from the definition you gave of moral except HRG is replacing humanity with his family, his and any man's first priority! Peter=good, no argument from me on that point. However, what we've seen of Future Peter leads me to believe that could change. Bob= undetermined for me! Adam hasn't convinced me he's evil yet either. Wouldn't really surprise me to see him have a change of heart and become a Hero in the end. I would also include Sylar=evil! The one I'm also interested in is the Haitian. He seems to have this pure spirit about him, but he works with HRG and the Company. He also with the Petrelli family as well. Who knows?
We don't know the whole story in Painting #7, he could be shooting out of self defense and that would change nothing, meaning he'd still be labeled good!
We don't know the whole story in Painting #7, he could be shooting out of self defense and that would change nothing, meaning he'd still be labeled good!
Right now, I'd have to say that most of the characters we're seeing could be classified as more "Morally gray" than anything else.
Sure, we've got some truly evil characters out there, and some that have some more nefarious plots in motion, but for the most part, they're not out there to do evil just for evil's sake.
Most of these folks are out for their own existance, and doing whatever is necessary in their eyes to continue that existance. Linderman believed that for evolved humans to live side by side with others, an explosion-type of disaster with an evolved human taking over the reigns of power at a critical point in time would solve most of the problems that he could foresee.
Adam's ideal hasn't really been stated yet, but we've seen that the virus that the company has developed is creating a problem. However, this problem was incurred by a company that is trying to limit the people with special powers, and in doing so, let loose pandora's box on an unsuspecting society.
So if you take most of these actions into context, you'll get morally gray more than true evil. I'd have to say that Sylar is painted as evil, mainly because of his complete self-serving ways, but other than that, I don't think there's many that you can give an absolute value to. After all, Nathan, Peter, Issac, Angela, Hiro, Kaito, Monica, Niki, DL, Micah et al have in some way used their abilities for themselves. This doesn't necessarily make them "good" any more than it would make them "evil".
I agree. I would even go as far as to put Adam in the morally gray group at this point. He could actually have the intention (or believe he does) of saving the world from a virus that he's watched the Company develop for the past 30 years. You just never know.
I think Sylar and possibly Elle (she admits she's a sociopath after all) may be the closest we have to "evil".
I suppose I could go along with the thought that most of the characters are 'morally gray,' as you've stated Jorm.
And JJ, I really like the idea about Adam thinking that he can save the world by destroying a virus he witnessed The Compnay to develop (and Peter would join that cause as well considering that he's seen what the virus can do first-hand when travelling to the future).
Hey... WHAT IF that's the reason as to why
Peter and Adam go to The Company in the next upcoming episodes?!? To DESTROY the virus! I'm not sure if Insider confirmed the reason or not, but I am liking your theory even more now
I suppose I could go along with the thought that most of the characters are 'morally gray,' as you've stated Jorm.
And JJ, I really like the idea about Adam thinking that he can save the world by destroying a virus he witnessed The Compnay to develop (and Peter would join that cause as well considering that he's seen what the virus can do first-hand when travelling to the future).
Hey... WHAT IF that's the reason as to why
Peter and Adam go to The Company in the next upcoming episodes?!? To DESTROY the virus! I'm not sure if Insider confirmed the reason or not, but I am liking your theory even more now
That's exactly the type of thing Peter would go along with.
I think Adam is multitasking by trying to destroy the virus to save the world while at the same time taking his revenge on the remaining members of the twelve. He'll try and justify the killings to Peter by claiming it's for a greater good. Something to the effect of "If we allow them to live, they'll just create another virus"...
I like this more than the his actions being bound strictly to his conflict with Hiro. I think that's obviously still a factor, which is why Kaito was first on his list.
I tend to agree JJ. After all, Adam is nothing if not resourceful. I'd have to say that being someone who's lived a few hundred years should have taught him how to be quite the "player" of a LONG political game, if nothing else.
I'd say that he's going to be playing on Peter's need to help, plus his big heart. He's going to use Peter's family, his friends, and even Caitlin (who's trapped in the future still) as things to get Peter to do his dirty work. The 12 (what's left of them) are going to respond by trying to neutralize Adam first, and that is just going to reinforce Peter's resolve that what Adam is trying to do is justified, because if Adam weren't a viable threat, then the Company would leave him alone.
So Adam's going to be using Peter to destroy not only the virus, but the 12, and the 12 are going to be trying to destroy Adam, but are only going to fuel Peter's drive to destroy them before they get to Adam..
Quite the puzzle. Pull the wrong piece out, and the whole thing is going to fall apart.
I hope the story writers are up to the task of keeping this interesting, and not redundant..
The only thing I'm still not quite sure of is how successful Adam will be in convincing Peter that the killings are justified, only because it goes against Peter's nature. I think they'll have a debate where Adam just about has Peter convinced it's the only way, and Hiro will show up and cause more confusion for Peter. That would be an interesting scene...
I like this more than the his actions being bound strictly to his conflict with Hiro.
Me too, JJ. Seriously, if the only thing you're going to worry about for 400 years is a silly carp-like Japanese man who stole your girlfriend, then you need to get a life. Lol...
Jormengrund wrote:
After all, Adam is nothing if not resourceful. I'd have to say that being someone who's lived a few hundred years should have taught him how to be quite the "player" of a LONG political game, if nothing else.
Most definitely... that's the least of the most important lessons he could have learned throughout the centuries. He doesn't need to learn how to survive, because his body does that anyway, so I should hope that he spent his time learning the ways of the 'system, lol.
jj0802 wrote:
The only thing I'm still not quite sure of is how successful Adam will be in convincing Peter that the killings are justified, only because it goes against Peter's nature.
And especially not if Peter knew who some of the Original 12 were. He revealed to us in "Four Months Ago" that he had seen Bob before, so chances are he might have known who Kaito was (or rather, has at least seen his face). I think he'd be less willing to take part in a murder if he knew the person, even if just as an acquaintance.
