The reason I'm more willing to believe that Hiro can slow but not stop time comes from his encounter with Hope...
In that shot when he realizes that she's not who she claims to be, she shoots at him, and he's able to slow time down, and instead of stop it, he reverses the flow..
I don't think he's able to STOP time, but merely "redivert" the energy expended by time's passing.
This means that he can slow it to a crawl, but time is an unblockable force that wo't be stopped. It can be channelled, and redirected, but never truly stopped.
Think of it as water flowing over a waterfall. You can try to put stuff out to catch it, and slow the flow, but to be honest, you're never going to be able to stop all of it...
Oh, and thanks for the faith in my Hiro/Daphne power explanation PK!
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: THANKS PK
PK - thanks for sharing your thoughts on the powers of the Level 5 Villians a few posts back. I appreciate it.
As for stopping Daphne, I definitely think Sylar or Peter have the potential. Peter even moreso, but we don't know if Peter also has "super hearing" or not. I would love to see Peter and Sylar working together to stop Daphne: For example: Sylar "hears" Daphne coming and gives Peter the signal, Peter attempts to stop time but Daphne 'moves' through at a slower rate, Peter then sends his thoughts to Sylar saying, 'NOW', Time unfreezes and Sylar unleashes his TK on Daphne holding her in a state of suspended animation. (like the bullets.) They then restrain her so she cannot generate "momentum".
I think that would be a cool scene of special effects. I hope they have a lot of those types of scenes/encounters/interactions this season.
I don't think it needs to be Sylar and/or Peter who has to stop her. I'm almost certain Hiro can still defeat her, even if she can move while time is frozen because as we saw at the end of Season 2, Hiro doesn't need to resume time at it's regular speed to teleport, shown in his fight with Peter.
We know Hiro retards time from the episode where his powers went wonky in the museum, and instead of freezing things, everything just went kind of slow. Did they show Hiro moving faster in relation to everyone else in that scene? I can't remember.
You said it right there though, Action. The only reason Hiro was able to slow down time, as opposed to freeze it, was because his powers weren't working properly. There are so many instances where they flat out say that Hiro can stop time:
1) In "Hiros" when Peter tells Mohinder a guy stopped time and told him to save a cheerleader
2) When Eden calls HRG and first tells him that there's a guy who can stop time, and HRG goes, "Whoa... that's cool."
3) In "Five Years Gone" when Mohinder tells Matt that on the day he received his father's ashes, Peter Petrelli said there was a man who stopped time and told him to save a cheerleader.
4) In the Season 1 Finale when Sylar taunts Hiro and tells him to stop time before he cuts off
There's no doubt in my mind that Hiro can completely stop time.
Action wrote:
Remember, time is bigger than Hiro's power, it more controls him than he controls it.
Hiro actually says that the 'power' itself is bigger than him, not the concept of time. I know it's just semantics, but in this scenario it matters
Action wrote:
I would think there isn't a point where time can stop. Just go so slow that it starts moving in reverse. Time is after all a dimension, and you can't "stop" length, width, or height.
True that you can't "stop" length, width, or heigh, but that's because they are units of measurement. Time is also unit of measurement, and measurements can have a value of 0. Speeding up time would be increasing the value (by seconds, hours, days, etc), and reversing it would give the seconds/hours/days a negative value. If a measurement can have both positive and negative values, then I think for certain it can have a value of zero, which would be equivalent to 'stopped' time.
Deftones wrote:
didnt we see a clip? those were soundwaves she produced right? i'm assuming 99% that she can move faster than the speed of sound (and faster than nathan can fly for that matter) not much faster, but faster
Yes, I'm pretty sure those were sound waves she created... and I'd actually like to see a race between them. I think it would be pretty evenly matched... especially if Nathan were to go maximum speed.
Wait, with all of the interaction between Hiro and Nathan in Season 1, maybe NATHAN is the one that helps Hiro take down Daphne, since it seems like Nathan might be the only other person who can catch up to her.
Deftones wrote:
how can sylar 'hear' her coming? maybe if he just noticed like...the 'differences' in soundwaves, and she'd have to be coming from kinda far away, otherwise he'd have no time to react
Because he has super-hearing. If Dale Smither could hear rain coming from over 40 MILES away, and a cockroaches FOOTSTEPS in the other room, then I'm positive that Sylar could hear Daphne approaching him.
Deftones wrote:
he couldnt STOP it because he wasnt strong enough/experienced enough
Actually, Hiro couldn't stop time in "Godsend" because of his emotions. The writers have made this clear - that Hiro's attitude at the moment is directly related to his power. Hiro was still deeply saddened by Charlie's loss, and Hiro makes a point to say this himself in the series as well. Hiro couldn't stop time because he was still heartbroken and felt defeated because he could not save Charlie. When he saw the sword, it gave him what little hope he had left, which was what allowed him to slow down time. When he got his sword for real, he finally felt whole again for the most part, complete, and that's the reason he was able to teleport out of Linderman's casino with Ando.
Hiro didn't have much experience in "One Giant Leap," yet he was still able to stop time and save the school girl from being run over.
Ledlevee wrote:
The more I think about it, it seems Hiro does only slow time down to the point that it seems stopped. Think about it, if time were really stopped, there would be no way even Hiro could move or do anything,
I agree with that, but I like this scenario to the interaction between Peter and Claude. Logically speaking, when Peter absorbed Claude's power for the first time, Claude was still invisible, and Peter shouldn't have been able to see Claude. Likewise, Claude shouldn't have been able to see Peter. Yet, it's clear that they can both see each other. How does that make any sense? Thus, there has to be some leeway with a person's power - invisible people can see other invisible people, and people who can stop time can still move in stopped time.
Jorm wrote:
In that shot when he realizes that she's not who she claims to be, she shoots at him, and he's able to slow time down, and instead of stop it, he reverses the flow..
I don't think he's able to STOP time, but merely "redivert" the energy expended by time's passing.
This means that he can slow it to a crawl, but time is an unblockable force that wo't be stopped. It can be channelled, and redirected, but never truly stopped.
IMO, I still don't like the idea that Hiro can't stop time completely, but that's a darn good explanation for the other side, Jorm! I like it a lot, especially the whole redirecting energy elsewhere, since energy can't just disappear, it has to be transferred to something else.
Jock wrote:
As for stopping Daphne, I definitely think Sylar or Peter have the potential.
As for the whole 'who can stop Daphne' situation, I agree that Peter would also be able to stop her, but the reason I didn't consider him is because I think his story line won't mix with Hiro's as much this season. But that's just a completely random guess, lol. So, I guess our candidates for equal rivals against Daphne are The Haitian, Sylar, Peter, (maybe Nathan), and Hiro (if he figures out how to outsmart her with his powers).
i don't think that sylar would be able to hear her coming. he might be able to hear her coming, but he would hear the soundwaves that were miles behind her, meaning that she could already be to him before he heard anything. the speed of sound is only 770 mph which i'm guessing she goes faster than that
i don't think that sylar would be able to hear her coming. he might be able to hear her coming, but he would hear the soundwaves that were miles behind her.
Good point, Guax! I agree... but still, IMO someone with super-hearing definitely has an advantage in regards to knowing when Daphne's coming as opposed to someone without super-hearing, even if it's only a second or two advantage. With that much time, Peter could use super-hearing (assuming he has it) to hear Daphne coming and immediately stop time just in time for her arrival.
I like the thought of Nathan being able to catch up to Daphne. I think we might be venturing into territory where the writers may not have considered, so I "hope they are checking out these posts & threads".
Just how fast can Nathan Fly? Just how fast can Daphne run? I'm assuming Daphne can run faster than Nathan can fly. if Nathan is able to see everything "normally" while flying supersonic, then hypothetically, he should be able to see Daphne running. (This is what I"m wondering about concerning the writers. Have they taken that into consideration?)
In the shocking second chapter of “Volume 3: Villains,” Angela (Cristine Rose) clashes with her much-changed son, Peter (Milo Ventimiglia), over how best to avert a seemingly inevitable worldwide catastrophe. First, Sylar (Zachary Quinto) declares war on the Company by attacking their main facility, and finds even more than he bargained for on Level 5. During a devastating battle with Elle (guest star Kristen Bell), a dozen savage criminals -- all with terrible abilities -- escape. Meanwhile, Claire (Hayden Panettiere) discovers something new and unexpected about her abilities. Determined to reclaim his family’s terrible secret, Hiro (Masi Oka) and Ando (James Kyson Lee) track Daphne (guest star Brea Grant) to Paris. After a fateful night, Suresh (Sendhil Ramamurthy) is thrilled to find his research, his life and his relationship with Maya (Dania Ramirez) evolving in leaps and bounds. Stuck in unfamiliar territory, Matt (Greg Grunberg) finds a guide (guest star Ntare Mwine) to help him. Ali Larter, Adrian Pasdar and Jack Coleman star. Ashley Crow, Jessalyn Gilsig, Malcolm McDowell, Stephen Tobolowsky, Bruce Boxleitner, Francis Capra, Blake Shields, William Katt, Ken Lally, David H. Lawrence XVII, Andre Royo and Kiko Ellsworth guest star.
Wowzer, seems like their keeping the Elle vs. Sylar in! Also Kiko Ellsworth (from the webseries is starring, maybe we see him escape and the webseries continues with his story?). I wonder what Claire finds out, that she is immortal, but her mom (Jessalyn Gilsig) appears!
The villains seem to be Francis Capra, Blake Shields, David H. Lawrence XVII?, Ken Lally?, Andre Royo? and Kiko?. No sign of Knox. William Katt seems to be in this episode who recently said in an interview, "I worked with Ali Larter in one of the first episodes of the season. I was this smarmy reporter who gets the goods on one of the characters. Would that be Nathan? or the governor? or possibly the naked pictures of Niki? What else to talk about?? Ooo! How excited i am for the Hiro/Daphne storyline! I love her already. Seems like maybe Elle gets hurt pretty bad and leaves for a couple episodes then maybe comes back (from the set pictures).
I would think there isn't a point where time can stop. Just go so slow that it starts moving in reverse. Time is after all a dimension, and you can't "stop" length, width, or height.
Hello there! I think you have a pretty good point there, even though you cant put width, lenght or height to cero 'cuz it will mean that in some way you can destroy mass, analogy wise you can't put time to zero 'cuz it will mean no energy at all in the affected area (just like someone else said before), and both mass and energy are things that cant be created nor destroyed (but then again, we are in a show that can generate fire from somewhat nothing so...). If you scale either width, height or length it means you are changing its density, but not destroying nor creating new mass, thus how can you apply the same concept with time i wonder?
POPKORN615 wrote:
You said it right there though, Action. The only reason Hiro was able to slow down time, as opposed to freeze it, was because his powers weren't working properly. There are so many instances where they flat out say that Hiro can stop time:
1) In "Hiros" when Peter tells Mohinder a guy stopped time and told him to save a cheerleader
2) When Eden calls HRG and first tells him that there's a guy who can stop time, and HRG goes, "Whoa... that's cool."
3) In "Five Years Gone" when Mohinder tells Matt that on the day he received his father's ashes, Peter Petrelli said there was a man who stopped time and told him to save a cheerleader.
4) In the Season 1 Finale when Sylar taunts Hiro and tells him to stop time before he cuts off
There's no doubt in my mind that Hiro can completely stop time.
Well, actually there is another explanation to all of those senteces. First of all, speed of moving is a relative thing, if you are standing at the roof of your building and you are watching two cars going against each other at 20mph you can say they are going slow, but if you are inside one of those cars you will probably say that the other car going fast against yours. The concept of speed is such a relative thing. The same goes with time, you can spend 2 hours doing nothing and you say that time is passing so slow that is nearly killing you (I say "you" in a figurative way, not literally ^^. But if you are so concentrated doing something or if you are having the time of your life, then the same 2 hours will be like a second to you. I think we all have been through that kind of situation.
So lets say that how can you distinguish between something moving at (10^-11)nanometers/year from something that is moving at (10^-12)nanometers/year? The difference is nearly indistinguishable(sp?), right? the same goes for those numbers and absolute zero! I'm sorry for being so thechnical here ^^; So the point here was that, how could Hiro or any other of the characters really know the difference between a really really really really slowed time and a real frozen time?
The other reason for those dialogues is somewhat even more obvious (to me), and it is that you can't say:
"Sylar: hey! why don't you slow time to a nearly infinitesimal cero value like last time?" (I know it wasn't the exact dialogue, sorry)
Dialogue wise, it just doesn't sound natural at all, the same goes to the other cases. It sounds better (plus cooler) to say "stopped time" or "froze time" than "nearly infinitesimal slowed time". So I don't think you can take those dialogues 100% in a literally way.
POPKORN615 wrote:
IMO, I still don't like the idea that Hiro can't stop time completely, but that's a darn good explanation for the other side, Jorm! I like it a lot, especially the whole redirecting energy elsewhere, since energy can't just disappear, it has to be transferred to something else.
Well, so far we can't say that hiro's power is to stop time and teleport, 'cuz we have seen so far that hiro's power is more than that. Besides since we have already seen Hiro slowing time I think that the whole "time is not frozen but really slowed down" thing is possible, and there is no better way to prove that than we a character than can move really really fast. So if daphne can actually move while time is supposed(?) to be frozen, it's better to me. But then again is just my opinion
Also, another thing about Daphne being able to move while time is frozen, is that it has such a great potential with her relationship with hiro in the sense that, so far for what have been show at the GN, Daphne's seems to think of herself as the faster person on the planet (and I know that this is kind of a big assumption of myself), so if she finds a person that can slow time and relatively more faster than her, it might create some kind of rivality (if she is a competitive person), which sounds very interesting and promising to me
Again, I hope I explained myself well enough and sorry for my poor english writing/grammar ^^;
Last edited by kitome on Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
See, I think the problem with comparing time to length, width and height is that while if you shrink one all the way to 0 making the other two dimensions obsolete, you can't compare it to time since time isn't measured in units of length. Maybe how Daphne was able to pull herself out of Hiro's time freeze is that when she's running, she creates a bubble of sorts when she breaks the sound barrier and so when time gets frozen, the bubble crashes, but she's left outside of time temporarily. Nobody's been able to alter the rate of change of time in reality, so we can't really tell what happens when an individual is able to manipulate time like Hiro can.
See, I think the problem with comparing time to length, width and height is that while if you shrink one all the way to 0 making the other two dimensions obsolete, you can't compare it to time since time isn't measured in units of length.
That's true also, but theorically you can scale up time (making it go slower) or scale down time (making it go faster), and you can even assign it a negative value. It's somewhat easy to get a logically acceptable conclusion for theese cases, but that's not the case for the 0 value. But anyway, all we are doing here is somewhat phisolophying about physics . I disagree though in that time has no units of measurement,
And, ALLYSHONE thanks for the really GREAT spoiler!!! now I can't wait for the new seasons to begin!! Also, it looks like
angela goes with future peter to the level 5 prison! and sylar gets stabbed in the chest!! I suppose that it is before he gets some new power!
Really, this season looks promising![/hide]
How about this instead? Maybe when Hiro's freezing time, he's actually pulling himself out of time. If you think back to when f. Hiro froze time on the train and Peter was walking around, they cut away to somewhere else (I think it was HRG and the Haitian taking Nathan, but can't remember) which was unaffected by time being frozen. Maybe Hiro's ability limits him to a certain radius, much like how you saw when he stole the sword from the museum, Ando was almost completely frozen, but the further off Hiro moved, people were moving slightly faster. When Hiro unfroze time, Ando suddenly noticed the sword missing and heard the bells, and yet the security guard had heard it because they showed him trying to stop Hiro. So basically, it'd be like everything in radius x let's say is the time where Hiro is pulled out of and everybody outside of the limit sees everything inside the limit as if everything in contrast just seems a bit slower.
Meanwhile, Claire (Hayden Panettiere) discovers something new and unexpected about her abilities.
Does this mean Claire may perhaps be the first person to exhibit multiple abilities without having to acquire them? Remember, she is a Petrelli afterall so perhaps she could very well have some trait that allows her "multiple powers". Why does it always seem that a child inherits only one power or variation thereof? Perhaps she will also begin to show signs of her mother's power???? I can't seem to imagine how healing/immortality could evolve. Maybe the answer is simpler than I'm thinking and she just discovers that in fact, she is "immortal".
How about this instead? Maybe when Hiro's freezing time, he's actually pulling himself out of time. If you think back to when f. Hiro froze time on the train and Peter was walking around, they cut away to somewhere else (I think it was HRG and the Haitian taking Nathan, but can't remember) which was unaffected by time being frozen. Maybe Hiro's ability limits him to a certain radius, much like how you saw when he stole the sword from the museum, Ando was almost completely frozen, but the further off Hiro moved, people were moving slightly faster. When Hiro unfroze time, Ando suddenly noticed the sword missing and heard the bells, and yet the security guard had heard it because they showed him trying to stop Hiro. So basically, it'd be like everything in radius x let's say is the time where Hiro is pulled out of and everybody outside of the limit sees everything inside the limit as if everything in contrast just seems a bit slower.
That sounds more like time travel to me, in the sense that Hiro can pull himself out of a "time-stream" (to call it someway), to another "time-stream", it kinda sounds possible... Each "time-stream" with its own properties, but as time and space are different things, he can still grab/use anything in another stream while he is near them pulling them to the "time-steam" he is in at the "moment", and putting it back to its original time-stream (please don't make mem keep with the " " :S) when release them. This also explain how peter was able to see future hiro at the train when he was using his power: they both synchronyzed to the same time-stream.
So far it sounds better each time, it can also explain how it can affect only certain objects, because it could be possible to not only put himself (hiro) into a different time-stream, but different objets too, thus explaining the bullet and the clocks...
Nice idea DARCY!
Last edited by kitome on Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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. I disagree though in that time has no units of measurement,
