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StilFire · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:43 am Post subject:

with regards linderman and teh getaway... bare in mind this wasn't REALLY his 'carefully orchestrated plan...' from what mama petrelli said it seemed to be fate... he might have orchestrated the election cofuffle, but let's be frank; with the right tools a monkey could do that. he's just another pawn in the great game of life... except with the power to heal things... what a waste of talent though eh?

btw, does anyone else think maybe mama petrelli (yes, i HAVE forgotten her name ^_^) sees the future? after all, isaac only PAINTED the future, and he's dead anyway... there has to be someone to take his place, and who's to say a power can't be reused by a different character....

haven't really thought this through; if she did see the future surely she'd know pete was the right horse to back, not nathan. i suppose pete couldpaint the future instead, too... my theory has had holes punched in it before i begin; i'm in WAY over my head...

.... *hides in the corner* ~stilfire

stonegroove007 · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject:

No way she can see the future, or else she would've separated herself from Linderman long ago (Angela's her name, BTW).

Jormengrund · Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject:

I dunno. I think she can see to a certain extent, but her power has a fallibility in that she thinks that everything she sees is correct and true, when in reality it can be turned to something completely different if certain events can be altered. Such as Hiro coming from the future to forewarn Peter about choices he needs to make..

Thus, she believed that everything she was doing was correct, but in the full spectrum both Angela and Linderman underestimated Hiro's resolve to be able to 'set things straight'. Therefore, if Hiro hadn't intervened, Linderman and Angela's brave new world scenario would have become true....

StilFire · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:09 am Post subject:

well, with any luck we'll find out in the next series... i really can't wait that long though; the suspense is killing me. it could be as you said, jormen... it makes some sense... then again i could be wrong all along and she could only know about this from another who sees the future... but again, they would have had to have the same issue in order for angela (thanks, btw Wink

) to get things so wrong. so... i dunno. it's been a long day ~stilfire

stonegroove007 · Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject:

Dammit, Jorm. Once again, too much cred is given to Hiro. Yes, he's been busting his hump to avert the disasters he's foreseen, but what about all the things everybody else has done?

StilFire · Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:38 am Post subject:

give a guy a break; hiro has had to babysit ando throughout his journey too Razz

'sides, we're on a message board titled 'super HIRO' - don't dis the master Very Happy

~stilfire

Jormengrund · Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject:

Actually Stone, I'm not discounting the actions of others, but you also need to realize that most of the actions we see taken in the series after episode 4 (5?) of season 1 are going to be mostly directed because of Hiro's actions.. After all, the whole "Save the cheerleader, save the world" statement? Why would they even have bothered if F. Hiro hadn't made the trip back in time to get those specific wheels moving?

There would be no reason for most of the plotlines if Hiro hadn't taken the action he did. After all, Linderman's plans wouldn't have had to be altered, HRG's job would have been quite different, Peter wouldn't gain the regenerative ability, Sylar would have, and there would have been quite a different outcome in NYC. Not to mention Nathan following through with Linderman's goal, and not Peter's.

So while the actions of everyone else helped to facilitate the end result, you do have to admit that because of the one 'ripple effect' of F. Hiro in contacting Peter in the subway, most of our results come from that one major action.

stonegroove007 · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject:

Hey, I'm not knocking the importance or impact of Hiro's actions; I just don't think everything that's happened should be attributed to him. After all, DL killed the dastardly Linderman with only the briefest of encounters with Hiro; during said encounter, Hiro gave DL no "save the cheerleader"-type instructions, either.

Payquage · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject:

I think the difference Hiro made in Linderman's death is that Nathan might not have told DL and Jessica where Linderman was if Hiro hadn't confronted him on the street. It was kind of a beneficial accident due to Hiro's time travel. Hiro didn't know DL and Jessica were after Linderman or that Nathan would be seeing them. Hiro probably didn't even know that Linderman had a role in the disaster. But when Hiro met Nathan, he told him that in the future he was a bad guy, and that knowledge may have changed Nathan's actions.

So Nathan still had to decide to send DL and Jessica to Linderman, DL did the work, and Hiro had no idea about any of that. But if he hadn't traveled in time, the rest wouldn't have happened. I'm not giving Hiro credit for masterminding the whole thing or doing all the work, but we know from the visits to the future that the bomb was going to go off in spite of everyone's efforts, unless Hiro changed something.

heroesdefects · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:46 am Post subject:

I love Hiro, but I think that his powers create a major problem for the show. Why did he show up on a subway car to give Peter a cryptic message? Why not jump a couple of years earlier and kill Sylar before he gets all his powers? He could at least have saved Peter some trouble by providing Claire's name and address. (And how did he figure out the right time and place to find Peter in subway car in the first place? Wouldn't it have been easier to, say, knock on his door?) There's his line about creating a rift in the space-time continuum, whatever that means, but present Hiro has jumped all over the place without rupturing any continuums. I hope that all this is filled out next year.

Time travel is really hard to do right. There are so many paradoxes. If they do it well, it's going to be a great season. If not, it's going to be annoying. In my opinion, time travel only really works when the future is inevitable and the time jumps ends up causing the future, as in Terminator 1 and 12 Monkeys.

whodack · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject:

Jormengrund · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject:

And that's the reason why they have such an abnormal fan base! Who else would get some of the more subtle nuances of time travel, or try to figure the physics of flight, or determine the amount of mental energy needed for a TK cutting beam?

I mean, this show is TAILORED for us geeks! Who else is going to watch it? Shocked

heroesdefects · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject:

I suppose that this is a question for a different topic, but which possible future was supposed to be portrayed in the five years gone episode? Future Hiro obviously thought that Claire was killed by Sylar, which is why he went back to give Peter the message. But Claire was alive. So either a) Future Hiro was mistaken, and Claire wasn't killed by Sylar at the homecoming dance, or b) Future Hiro's past was somehow changed by his intervention with Peter. But in the case of b), his memory of Claire dying should also have changed, right?

stonegroove007 · Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject:

I caught that, too. When Future Hiro went to Noah and slipped it in that he knew Claire was still about and alive, Noah immediately went to Claire the Waitress and gave her money and such to leave. I think it's some kind of time travel loop; perhaps the changes Future Hiro had made by going back and giving Peter his "Save the Cheerleader" mission had already taken place without them knowing. Claire did go to see "Nathan", and was "harvested" by Sylar. So it seems like in "Five Years Gone", Peter's work had already been done. It was very vague.

lessa · Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject:

Heh, the apocalypse went down as scheduled, and she still wanted a normal life. We should have been able to guess that she wouldn't be able to shoot Peter, Noah's faith in her aside.

These are supposed to be regular guys, right? Only Hiro had a course of adventure that would teach him to kill for the good of the many. Heck, if Sylar hadn't stopped him, Hiro might have taken Peter out.

What I kind of wonder is, why does Hiro keep saying his power is "just like on Star Trek?" Couldn't they get a license to mention Doctor Who?